# Justice League: Zach Snyder out; Joss Whedon in **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 22, 2017, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-zach-snyder-out-joss-whedon-in/787241 "2017-05-22T22:28:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-zach-snyder-out-joss-whedon-in/787241/1 "2017-05-22T22:28:22Z")
The cause is really terrible: Zach Snyder’s daughter committed suicide so he is stepping down from finishing Justice League to be with his family and handing it over to Joss. If it were any other circumstances this would be joyous news. Story [here](http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/zack-snyder-steps-down-justice-league-deal-family-tragedy-1006455). ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-zach-snyder-out-joss-whedon-in/787241/2 "2017-05-22T22:31:54Z")
That is sad. Condolences to the Snyder family. If it were anything but an emergency, I’d accuse DC/Warner of having no ideas but to copy Marvel, but under the circumstances, you can’t blame them for jumping at someone who’s been there before to finish the job. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-zach-snyder-out-joss-whedon-in/787241/3 "2017-05-22T22:55:53Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > The cause is really terrible: Zach Snyder’s daughter committed suicide so he is stepping down from finishing Justice League to be with his family and handing it over to Joss. \*\*If it were any other circumstances this would be joyous news. \*\*Story [here](http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/zack-snyder-steps-down-justice-league-deal-family-tragedy-1006455). Bolded for emphasis. Love the change - hate the reason. Zach and family have my sincere condolences. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-zach-snyder-out-joss-whedon-in/787241/4 "2017-05-22T22:58:16Z")
Wow, that really does make it awkward to celebrate the change, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-zach-snyder-out-joss-whedon-in/787241/5 "2017-05-22T23:46:56Z")
Oh man, that’s so terrible. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-zach-snyder-out-joss-whedon-in/787241/6 "2017-05-22T23:59:28Z")
I’d never looked him up. From his films, I had always assumed that he was gay. With children by three women, I guess not. That’s too bad about his daughter. If she was 20, then it’s likely that whatever she wrote will be good enough to read. Hopefully, it will get published. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-zach-snyder-out-joss-whedon-in/787241/7 "2017-05-23T00:10:51Z")
Apparently, Joss was already involved with the film, writing some additional scenes Snyder wanted for the finished product. So when he couldn’t continue, Joss stepped by his request. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-zach-snyder-out-joss-whedon-in/787241/8 "2017-05-23T00:13:55Z")
Setting aside the tragedy which forced this change, why the hell would Joss Whedon–a director who clearly enjoys putting a very personal stamp on his work, and who god burned out after demands and purported studio interference while he directed and produced _Avengers: Age of Ultron_–want to take on this whale of a project? It has a November 17 release date which almost certainly means that principal photography is complete, the story is essentially set, and most of the work is going to be in the editing and visual effects side. I doubt Whedon can do much more than just shepherd this already baked pie along to its inevitable conclusion, and frankly the promos so far don’t make it seem much better than the previous DC properties. I suppose he could be doing it as a favor to the studio, or just for the money, but this seems like a thankless task that he’ll be blamed for if it is bad and (rightfully) not get much credit if it happens to come out well, and either way, it is someone else’s horse. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-zach-snyder-out-joss-whedon-in/787241/9 "2017-05-23T00:22:25Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Setting aside the tragedy which forced this change, why the hell would Joss Whedon–a director who clearly enjoys putting a very personal stamp on his work, and who god burned out after demands and purported studio interference while he directed and produced _Avengers: Age of Ultron_–want to take on this whale of a project? It has a November 17 release date which almost certainly means that principal photography is complete, the story is essentially set, and most of the work is going to be in the editing and visual effects side. I doubt Whedon can do much more than just shepherd this already baked pie along to its inevitable conclusion, and frankly the promos so far don’t make it seem much better than the previous DC properties. I suppose he could be doing it as a favor to the studio, or just for the money, but this seems like a thankless task that he’ll be blamed for if it is bad and (rightfully) not get much credit if it happens to come out well, and either way, it is someone else’s horse. > > Stranger I thnk he’s just being nice. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-zach-snyder-out-joss-whedon-in/787241/10 "2017-05-23T00:35:40Z")
I’m sure Joss is building up points to keep the interference with \*Batgirl \*to a minimum. Plus the fact that he is a genuine nice guy. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-zach-snyder-out-joss-whedon-in/787241/11 "2017-05-23T00:36:43Z")
He’s already involved with DC. He was assisting Snyder and he’s on board to write and direct the upcoming ‘Batgirl’ project. Someone’s got to pinch hit. Why not a guy who’s already involved, knows what it takes, and wants to move forward in-universe. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-zach-snyder-out-joss-whedon-in/787241/12 "2017-05-23T00:36:58Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Setting aside the tragedy which forced this change, why the hell would Joss Whedon–a director who clearly enjoys putting a very personal stamp on his work, and who god burned out after demands and purported studio interference while he directed and produced _Avengers: Age of Ultron_–want to take on this whale of a project? It has a November 17 release date which almost certainly means that principal photography is complete, the story is essentially set, and most of the work is going to be in the editing and visual effects side. I doubt Whedon can do much more than just shepherd this already baked pie along to its inevitable conclusion, and frankly the promos so far don’t make it seem much better than the previous DC properties. I suppose he could be doing it as a favor to the studio, or just for the money, but this seems like a thankless task that he’ll be blamed for if it is bad and (rightfully) not get much credit if it happens to come out well, and either way, it is someone else’s horse. “I’ll take over your flagship film during this eleventh hour crisis, and maybe rub some ‘Avengers’ magic on it. You stop sending me inane fucking ‘notes’ on [my Batgirl movie](http://variety.com/2017/film/news/batgirl-movie-joss-whedon-warner-bros-1202018544/).” Also, I think you’ve got the outcomes reversed. Zack Snyder’s burned through almost all of his fan cred, while Joss Whedon continues to have a nearly unlimited supply. If the film disappoints, it’ll be blamed on Snyder, same as _Man of Steel_, BvS, and even _Suicide Squad_ to a certain extent. If it succeeds, it’ll be, “Joss Whedon saves the DC Movieverse!” Either way, I wouldn’t be surprised if Warner Bros. uses this tragedy to edge Snyder out of their movie franchise altogether. Particularly if _Wonder Woman_ turns out as good as the pre-release buzz suggests. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-zach-snyder-out-joss-whedon-in/787241/13 "2017-05-23T00:39:29Z")
After listening to as much of the voice-over to Age of Ultron that I could stand (about 10 minutes), there’s also the possibility that he’s grown arrogant enough to think that he can pull an Avengers-style success out of a DC movie. Which, given how he’s been fairly pro-Marvel all along, would be yet another feather in his cap. Or, as above, since they’re pretty much in the final editing stages, he may be looking at the role as super-executive-producer rather than director. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-zach-snyder-out-joss-whedon-in/787241/14 "2017-05-23T00:42:26Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I thnk he’s just being nice. …indeed. I would like to think that everybody here would gladly step up to the plate if asked. And Joss is uniquely experienced enough to be able to pull this off. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-zach-snyder-out-joss-whedon-in/787241/15 "2017-05-23T01:25:54Z")
So, maybe, given the circumstances, they’ll decide to delay it to next Summer. The fans certainly won’t mind. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-zach-snyder-out-joss-whedon-in/787241/16 "2017-05-23T02:15:22Z")
> [@](#): > > So, maybe, given the circumstances, they’ll decide to delay it to next Summer. You think that Joss will bring in Ms. Glau in some role? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-zach-snyder-out-joss-whedon-in/787241/17 "2017-05-23T03:23:44Z")
Damn, I wish this change had happened for any other reason. How terrible for Zach Snyder and his family. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-zach-snyder-out-joss-whedon-in/787241/18 "2017-05-23T11:07:21Z")
Oh, and as to why Whedon is doing this, keep in mind also that he really enjoys making movies. He’s not worried about his paycheck or his reputation; he’s just having fun. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-zach-snyder-out-joss-whedon-in/787241/19 "2017-05-23T12:01:38Z")
Yes, but he’s not really ‘making’ this film. The creative foundation–the plot, the conflicts, and the characters–are already laid out, and the most he can probably do is loop in some minor dialogue or do some editing room work. Whedon did a phenomenal job with the fist _Avengers_ film (not so much the second but that was as much an artifact of having to shoehorn in so many future threads and then tie off the villian as anything wrong woth the basic structure) is at his best with smaller projects where he has creative control and collaborates with his stable of actors and production staff. This film just seems like a rushed mess with what is (in the trailer at least) terrible dialogue and questionable characterization, and DC in such a hurry to catch up with Marvel Studios that they’re putting out a big group spectacle film without having even introduced half of the characters separately. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-zach-snyder-out-joss-whedon-in/787241/20 "2017-05-23T12:22:42Z")
True, but didn’t Joss start out as a script doctor? They’re way past the script stage here, admittedly, but he has experience in cleaning up messes. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-league-zach-snyder-out-joss-whedon-in/787241.md?page=2)