# Justice or Not? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 9, 2009, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-or-not/520544 "2009-12-09T01:40:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-or-not/520544/1 "2009-12-09T01:40:25Z")
Suppose a person you knew was murdered in front of your eyes but when the murderer was arrested he was acquited but everyone thinks he’s guilty like say OJ Simpson. Would you seek revenge? If you are arrested public opinion will be solidly for you and you will if convicted be immediatly pardoned by the President. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-or-not/520544/2 "2009-12-09T01:42:07Z")
It was my wife or kids that were murdered. Sure. As long as that pardon is guaranteed. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-or-not/520544/3 "2009-12-09T01:50:59Z")
So basically this is a test to identify pacifists, i.e. the people who won’t kill for revenge even if there are no consequences? Heck, if I was guaranteed a pardon, I can imagine killing a guy who _didn’t_ waste my family. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-or-not/520544/4 "2009-12-09T02:23:03Z")
I can’t personally imagine watching anyone die by my hands on accident, let alone on purpose. However, under the circumstances you describe, I’m sure I wouldn’t miss the murderer if someone took care of him for me, so long as I didn’t need to know the bloody details. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-or-not/520544/5 "2009-12-09T02:40:10Z")
There is a greater good to society served by avoiding vigilante justice no matter how reasonable it is made to be. At a personal level, if someone unjustifiably murdered one of my own family members and got off scot free I would see to it that they are killed (assuming the evidence was absolute–not necessarily just an eyewitness), greater good and any other consequence be damned. But I am old and crusty and mean. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-or-not/520544/6 "2009-12-09T03:18:03Z")
I think I should be found innocent of committing a run on sentence with no commas or other punctuation and that I should be let off because I’m really a good guy like Jack Ruby. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-or-not/520544/7 "2009-12-09T03:37:52Z")
Sure, there’s a whole lot of people i’d happily kill if there was no consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-or-not/520544/8 "2009-12-09T03:46:13Z")
No. I don’t believe in vigilante justice. I don’t believe in the death penalty anyway, and I don’t like the effect that the murder could have on me. Like Nietzsche says–when you look into the abyss the abyss looks back into you. I don’t want to become a monster. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-or-not/520544/9 "2009-12-09T03:59:09Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I don’t want to become a monster. I’m prepared to say “monster me up!” myself. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-or-not/520544/10 "2009-12-09T04:22:31Z")
To be perfectly pedantic, the OP did not say that the revenge necessarily had to come in the form of death, just that you can “seek revenge.” What if that revnge could be something short of murder, like say, cutting his balls off and sewing them onto his face? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-or-not/520544/11 "2009-12-09T04:27:15Z")
Hmm. I just don’t feel right allotting justice like that. I think any time one person takes it on themselves to decide what justice is…well, then it’s not justice. It’s vengeance. That’s not the kind of world I want to live in. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-or-not/520544/12 "2009-12-09T04:32:12Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Hmm. I just don’t feel right allotting justice like that. I think any time one person takes it on themselves to decide what justice is…well, then it’s not justice. It’s vengeance. That’s not the kind of world I want to live in. With that pardon you have state sanction, so it’s _not_ just you. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-or-not/520544/13 "2009-12-09T04:36:07Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > With that pardon you have state sanction, so it’s _not_ just you. But you’re not being told by a justice system to commit the crime. You’re being pardoned after the fact. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-or-not/520544/14 "2009-12-09T04:36:45Z")
Why should I be the one to seek revenge? No, I wouldn’t even if family had been murdered. And I wouldn’t wish the death penalty on anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-or-not/520544/15 "2009-12-09T04:38:14Z")
If the revenge would bring my family back…then, yeah. But if it’s just going to be me and revenge…I guess I just don’t believe it would bring me any happiness, or improve me as a person. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-or-not/520544/16 "2009-12-09T04:44:20Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > No. I don’t believe in vigilante justice. I don’t believe in the death penalty anyway, and I don’t like the effect that the murder could have on me. Like Nietzsche says–when you look into the abyss the abyss looks back into you. I don’t want to become a monster. I’ll sling back to you what you once said to me (don’t deny it. I’ve got logs and everything) : all right, you, I like. In fact, to my shame I can say that I know it to be true from experience. Don’t ask - the statute of limitation hasn’t expired yet 😉 All I can say is, I stopped myself partly out of spite, but mostly because I was watching myself the whole time and didn’t like it one bit. Other than that, this whole topic springs a quote to my mind, and I’m sure some other Doper will pinpoint its origin 'cause I sure as hell can’t right now, not for lack of trying. My best guess is Neil Stephenson’s _Baroque Cycle_. Anyhow, here goes : A: [explains the last touches of his nefarious plan] and then, finally, I will have my revenge ! B : I really hate that word. A : Which one ? Revenge ? B : Yes. A : Ah, but you have to be a King to call it “justice”. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-or-not/520544/17 "2009-12-09T04:45:40Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > But you’re not being told by a justice system to commit the crime. You’re being pardoned after the fact. I have to figure this is equivalent to being told your intended act of revenge has been officially sanctioned. Whatever hair you’re trying to split doesn’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![kmgraves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ea666f/32.png) [@kmgraves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kmgraves)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-or-not/520544/18 "2009-12-09T04:48:23Z")
“A Time To Kill” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-or-not/520544/19 "2009-12-09T04:49:43Z")
> [@kmgraves](#): > > “A Time To Kill” Yeah, you’ll get revenge by making the killer watch it over and over! ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-or-not/520544/20 "2009-12-09T04:58:40Z")
Not a chance. Unless that would bring them back to life. Could you do such a thing and feel no guilt? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-or-not/520544.md?page=2)