# Justice Scalia on 60 Minutes: Scary Quote **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 28, 2008, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-scalia-on-60-minutes-scary-quote/447193 "2008-04-28T05:29:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-scalia-on-60-minutes-scary-quote/447193/21 "2008-04-28T07:51:35Z")
[QUOTE=Crocodiles And Boulevards] That’s frankly ridiculous. Just because the constitution doesn’t mention rape doesn’t mean that it’s OK to do so. We have OTHER laws that take care of these OTHER cases. Scalia is specifically addressing the specific amendment given a specific context given by Stahl. Not to mention we have other parts of the Constitution that would better serve to look at the legality of rape, murder, etc. I don’t see where _anyone_ is arguing that the Founders intended what you said. [/QUOTE] What part of the Constitution protects people from state sanctioned rape that doesn’t also protect them from state sanctioned torture? It’s either all Constitutional or none of it is. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-scalia-on-60-minutes-scary-quote/447193/22 "2008-04-28T07:52:45Z")
[QUOTE=Crocodiles And Boulevards] And for the record, you may be right about courts sanctioning torture as a penalty for not fessing up in certain recorded cases. **However** , that is not something you could pull from the OP. That’s something that came in entirely outside of the context of this thread. [/QUOTE] It’s a shotgun blast through Scalia’s asinine sophistry. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-scalia-on-60-minutes-scary-quote/447193/23 "2008-04-28T07:54:12Z")
[QUOTE=Crocodiles And Boulevards] I don’t see where _anyone_ is arguing that the Founders intended what you said. [/QUOTE] Scalia is insinuating that the they did not intend to disallow torture as a means of interrogation. ---
**Author:** ![Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crocodiles_And_Boulevards)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-scalia-on-60-minutes-scary-quote/447193/24 "2008-04-28T08:13:09Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Scalia is insinuating that the they did not intend to disallow torture as a means of interrogation. [/QUOTE] Wait, I’m really getting lost here. Where _precisely_ is he insinuating this? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-scalia-on-60-minutes-scary-quote/447193/25 "2008-04-28T11:44:00Z")
I think Scalia tries to make people think “outside the box” on constitutional issues. We are so trained by the tortured (pardon the pun) twisted interpretations of the constitution by the Warren Court that most people have lost sight of what the framers intended. Surely cops raping suspects as an above poster stated would be covered under the due process clause, the fourth amendment, the fourteenth, or the ninth amendment, but Scalia makes a good point that the eighth was intended for punishment as could be applied to criminal convicts. Words should mean things and this “living and evolving document” nonsense only serves to make 9 judges our masters… ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-scalia-on-60-minutes-scary-quote/447193/26 "2008-04-28T11:56:13Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I couldn’t care less. [/QUOTE] Which is why no one will ever put you on any court bench. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-scalia-on-60-minutes-scary-quote/447193/27 "2008-04-28T12:12:15Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] Which is why no one will ever put you on any court bench. [/QUOTE] I am sure you have encountered worse judges. It happens. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-scalia-on-60-minutes-scary-quote/447193/28 "2008-04-28T12:18:49Z")
What got my interest about Scalia was that he seems to think that he is the only right interpreter of the Constitution. And I believe he uses his upbringing and schooling into his interpretation’s( although he says thathe doesn’t, it seems to be what he does). Monavis ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-scalia-on-60-minutes-scary-quote/447193/29 "2008-04-28T13:18:31Z")
I don’t understand what everyone other than the OP and **DtC** is on about here. Is this just some kind of fun game? Some kind of clever gotcha? “Oooh, torture isn’t punishment, so it really is okay”? America is now a country that condones torture. I don’t think that’s funny or clever or the basis for any sort of word game. Justifying it in any fashion is abhorrent. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-scalia-on-60-minutes-scary-quote/447193/30 "2008-04-28T13:42:31Z")
He did seem to be a bit of an arrogant bully. But what I took from his interview surprised me. He seemed to be saying that the legislature, rather than the courts, should determine what is and isn’t permissible in a changing society. That actually makes sense to me if you’re going to base your society on laws. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-scalia-on-60-minutes-scary-quote/447193/31 "2008-04-28T13:43:58Z")
I was very impressed by Scalia on 60 Minutes, and he makes a very good argument for “original intent”. Those who describe the constitution as a “living breathing document” are subjecting themselves to the whims of the Supreme Court, with much less security than the document was intended for. Take Roe vs Wade for example. No where else in the free world is abortion an issue, but it comes up every presidential election and Supreme Court nomination. Free choice advocates have a never ending job defending that decision which could easily be overturned. Scalia is right. The constitution’s original intent was neither to permit abortions or ascribe the right to life of a fetus. To establish the right to abortion, Americans would be better off to pass a clearly written amendment, but that won’t happen since the court has already ruled on the issue. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-scalia-on-60-minutes-scary-quote/447193/32 "2008-04-28T13:47:58Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] I don’t understand what everyone other than the OP and **DtC** is on about here. Is this just some kind of fun game? Some kind of clever gotcha? “Oooh, torture isn’t punishment, so it really is okay”? America is now a country that condones torture. I don’t think that’s funny or clever or the basis for any sort of word game. Justifying it in any fashion is abhorrent. [/QUOTE] I see. Scalia condones torture because he doesn’t see a US constitutional protection against it? I guess that every other western country must condone torture. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-scalia-on-60-minutes-scary-quote/447193/33 "2008-04-28T14:04:17Z")
It’s all well and good to sit back and scratch our chins alongside Scalia and say, well, it really is up to the legislators to prohibit this sort of thing. However, that’s only after coming to the conclusion that if I, as a legislator, wrote that we cannot engage in “cruel and unusual punishment”, I did not mean to rule out torture, since by some connotations, torture differs from punishment. In other words, what this demonstrates to me is that semantic buggery can be performed on words that should be otherwise eminently clear. This is wholly apart from the fact that this adminstration has demonstrated that no matter what the legislative branch comes up with, the executive branch can simply signing statement it all right into oblivion, which did in fact occur vis a vis torture. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-scalia-on-60-minutes-scary-quote/447193/34 "2008-04-28T14:11:34Z")
Well, you folks seem to know it all. So I have a question. Stahl mentioned Abu Ghraib and asked if cruel and unusual punishment applied in that circumstance. Can someone explain to me how detainees in an Iraqi prison have any rights under the Eighth Amendment of the American Constitution? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-scalia-on-60-minutes-scary-quote/447193/35 "2008-04-28T14:14:37Z")
[QUOTE=jtgain] I think Scalia tries to make people think “outside the box” on constitutional issues. We are so trained by the tortured (pardon the pun) twisted interpretations of the constitution by the Warren Court that most people have lost sight of what the framers intended. Surely cops raping suspects as an above poster stated would be covered under the due process clause, the fourth amendment, the fourteenth, or the ninth amendment, but Scalia makes a good point that the eighth was intended for punishment as could be applied to criminal convicts. [/quote] Why wouldn’t torture be covered under the same protections a rape? ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-scalia-on-60-minutes-scary-quote/447193/36 "2008-04-28T14:20:14Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] He did seem to be a bit of an arrogant bully. But what I took from his interview surprised me. He seemed to be saying that the legislature, rather than the courts, should determine what is and isn’t permissible in a changing society. That actually makes sense to me if you’re going to base your society on laws. [/QUOTE] The problem with that is that legislatures (state legislatures even more so) blow with the wind. They are quick to get caught up in the latest scare and respond by passing legislation that restricts freedom. _See, **The Patriot Act** _ ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-scalia-on-60-minutes-scary-quote/447193/37 "2008-04-28T14:23:46Z")
[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman] I see. Scalia condones torture because he doesn’t see a US constitutional protection against it? I guess that every other western country must condone torture. [/QUOTE] Where did you get the idea that he condones torture? > [@Diogenes](#): > > Why wouldn’t torture be covered under the same protections a rape? Certainly, rape is torturous, but not all forms of torture are rape. It’s for the same reason that laws against marijuana don’t cover all drugs. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-scalia-on-60-minutes-scary-quote/447193/38 "2008-04-28T14:24:13Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] I don’t understand what everyone other than the OP and **DtC** is on about here. Is this just some kind of fun game? Some kind of clever gotcha? “Oooh, torture isn’t punishment, so it really is okay”? America is now a country that condones torture. I don’t think that’s funny or clever or the basis for any sort of word game. Justifying it in any fashion is abhorrent. [/QUOTE] It’s not a question of “OK.” Scalia explictly says torture isn’t “OK.” The question is whether, if it’s done in the context described, it’s constitutional. Look, consider a soldier on patrol in Kabul. He sees a 13-year-old Afghani girl going home form market, and grabs her, pulls her into a deserted building, and rapes her, then kills her. Two questions: 1. Is that OK? 2. Is that forbidden by the Constitution of the United States? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-scalia-on-60-minutes-scary-quote/447193/39 "2008-04-28T14:26:46Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] The problem with that is that legislatures (state legislatures even more so) blow with the wind. They are quick to get caught up in the latest scare and respond by passing legislation that restricts freedom. _See, **The Patriot Act** _ [/QUOTE] I agree with that. But representative democracy is the pig we’re saddled with. When I’ve advocated for a political system that is judicial in nature, I’ve been hammered and piled upon to the point that I hardly even discuss my political philosophies anymore. One can’t say we’re a nation of laws, and then write off the law making body. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-scalia-on-60-minutes-scary-quote/447193/40 "2008-04-28T14:27:30Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Well, you folks seem to know it all. So I have a question. Stahl mentioned Abu Ghraib and asked if cruel and unusual punishment applied in that circumstance. Can someone explain to me how detainees in an Iraqi prison have any rights under the Eighth Amendment of the American Constitution? [/QUOTE] Can you explain how they don’t? The 8th Amendment says, “Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.” Where does it make an exception for Abu Ghraib? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-scalia-on-60-minutes-scary-quote/447193.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justice-scalia-on-60-minutes-scary-quote/447193.md?page=3)