# Justification for using pirated software **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 4, 2006, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justification-for-using-pirated-software/375320 "2006-10-04T22:58:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justification-for-using-pirated-software/375320/41 "2006-10-05T21:01:31Z")
[QUOTE=CrankyAsAnOldMan] I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. I’m psyched to hear you are using it–but dismayed to hear about the piracy. I’m married to one of the former Yost Group members. Yost is not longer getting royalties from it so I guess I won’t gnash my teeth too hard. I don’t understand why all your peers have cracked/pirated copies. Yes, it is expensive. Isn’t the pricing based on the assumption that it would be bought by companies for the artists they employ? As for artists working as independent contractor, wouldn’t they consider it a cost of doing their craft (much as they buy computers with great rendering capacity and good video cards)? I didn’t think the upgrade was a full $3500 each time. It didn’t used to be. [/QUOTE] Tell 'em I love the software! I’ve been using it now ever since… well, since before it became “Max”. 🙂 Most companies I’ve worked for (and I’m assuming all function this way) install the software on the work computers, and there’s no way to take it home to work on it. While artists love to play with the software and learn new things about it, very few will want to hang around work more than they absolutely have to. Most beginning artists I know started at around $20k/year, maybe a bit higher. Thirty-five hundred bucks is a HUGE chunk of that. I know there was some sort of “subscription” service you could buy… but as I recall, it would only get you one or two of the updates. I’m very surprised that Discreet doesn’t encourage more individuals to buy legal copies by making it really cheap- more users who are knowledgeable about the program is good, right? It would mean more companies who use it. _One company I worked for used pirated versions of Max exclusively. Man, I hated working there- I almost got fired for complaining about having to use cracked, and therefore buggy and non-supported, software._ ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justification-for-using-pirated-software/375320/42 "2006-10-05T21:17:32Z")
[QUOTE=CrankyAsAnOldMan] Well, I’m no intellectual property theorist, so bear with me… but in another sense, the developer’s income is supposed to be correlated with the number of users (I’m not talking legally, I’m talking about the logical reward for investing time and expertise into software development). Build a desirable product, get more users and more income. Build a bad product, have no users and no income. Pirated software introduces a disconnect, because the developer is producing a desirable product yet is getting no income from some of the usership. In other words, by stealing the software, the thief is violating the laws of the market. What’s next, the laws of gravity? Good god man, you can see how serious this could get. [/QUOTE] Sure, the problem comes when people who could/would have paid for software pirate it. But if some 18 year old Russian guy is using a pirated copy of Maya, is that a problem? I mean it’s not as though he could ever pay for a legitimate copy, so whomever makes Maya is not seeing any loss in revenue. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justification-for-using-pirated-software/375320/43 "2006-10-05T21:43:46Z")
Pirated software IS NOT stealing, nor is it child rape, nor is it running a red light. It is it’s own entity. SO to the OP, yes theft is theft is theft, but pirated software is pirated software is pirated software, and child rape is child rape is child rape… ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justification-for-using-pirated-software/375320/44 "2006-10-05T22:02:52Z")
[QUOTE=treis] Sure, the problem comes when people who could/would have paid for software pirate it. But if some 18 year old Russian guy is using a pirated copy of Maya, is that a problem? I mean it’s not as though he could ever pay for a legitimate copy, so whomever makes Maya is not seeing any loss in revenue. [/QUOTE] Except that someone who can afford Maya finds out that poor Igor didn’t have to pay for it and therefore, he shouldn’t have to pay for it either. Not everyone who grabs that ‘free’ version is a struggling artist who ‘needs’ it to better him- or herself. ---
**Author:** ![Mikemike2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikemike2/32/305_2.png) [@Mikemike2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikemike2)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justification-for-using-pirated-software/375320/45 "2006-10-05T22:19:08Z")
[QUOTE=D\_Odds] Except that someone who can afford Maya finds out that poor Igor didn’t have to pay for it and therefore, he shouldn’t have to pay for it either. Not everyone who grabs that ‘free’ version is a struggling artist who ‘needs’ it to better him- or herself. [/QUOTE] No, some are consumers who want to try an expensive piece of software before buying it, to see if it works with their system and meets their particular needs. Others are people who own a legitimate copy of the software, but prefer to use a cracked pirated version for backups and restores because it is much easier (no grovelling to the vendor to please allow another activation even thought it is a right which was purchased) and saves them time (which is their money). ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justification-for-using-pirated-software/375320/46 "2006-10-05T22:58:12Z")
[QUOTE=justqwerty] The fact that exist a cheaper/free substitution is absolutely irrelevant [/quote] Well, saying that now is just moving the goalposts, because earlier you said: > [@](#): > > well, they can buy a cheaper car, but where do you buy cheaper OS Don’t get all shirty just because we answered your sodding question. > [@](#): > > let’s compare apples with apples. I need Vista ..for better or for worse… because I don’t want to have compatibility problems with other soft/users so, please, don’t tell me to use Linux ,ubunty, whatever.. If you need it (highly dubious use of the term ‘need’, but whatever), then you also _need_ to pay for it. If you can’t afford to pay for something you need, then… \ well, life’s just like that sometimes - _still_ doesn’t mean it’s OK to take it without paying. The universe doesn’t owe you the right to just have everything because you say you need it. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justification-for-using-pirated-software/375320/47 "2006-10-05T23:33:36Z")
[QUOTE=D\_Odds] Except that someone who can afford Maya finds out that poor Igor didn’t have to pay for it and therefore, he shouldn’t have to pay for it either. Not everyone who grabs that ‘free’ version is a struggling artist who ‘needs’ it to better him- or herself. [/QUOTE] That’s a pretty weak argument. People in Europe don’t pay for health care but it’s not as though we have a rash of people saying “Screw this, they don’t pay for health care in Sweden so why should I pay this bill?” ---
**Author:** ![justqwerty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/59ef9b/32.png) [@justqwerty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justqwerty)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2006, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justification-for-using-pirated-software/375320/48 "2006-10-05T23:36:17Z")
OK, I agree ,your “goalpost” comment is fair , but why on earth would you call my question “sodding” ? It wasn’t my intention to trick anyone, just an honest frustration with the situation, and ,yes, I know that life is unfair… ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justification-for-using-pirated-software/375320/49 "2006-10-06T02:08:09Z")
[QUOTE=treis] This assumes that your pirate is able and willing to pay for the product. I seriously doubt your average Russian software pirate has 200 bucks to drop on Vista. [/QUOTE] This is still a straw man. Many companies sell localized versions of their software at a discount in Russia and other countries. In China, I can buy tons of LEGAL disney VCD’s for $2, but these are licensed only for use in China. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justification-for-using-pirated-software/375320/50 "2006-10-06T03:10:07Z")
[QUOTE=China Guy] This is still a straw man. Many companies sell localized versions of their software at a discount in Russia and other countries. In China, I can buy tons of LEGAL disney VCD’s for $2, but these are licensed only for use in China. [/QUOTE] Can you buy Vista for $2? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justification-for-using-pirated-software/375320/51 "2006-10-06T06:29:35Z")
Putting aside the question of why the OP wants to run Windows at all ;), I have to ask what’s wrong with just sticking with the current version he’s got? I mean, it’s not as if you’re _required_ to upgrade to Vista; one could just trudge along with Windows 2000/XP for another few years. Just because the companies put out shinier new toys all the time doesn’t mean you have to have them. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justification-for-using-pirated-software/375320/52 "2006-10-06T07:13:26Z")
[QUOTE=justqwerty] OK, I agree ,your “goalpost” comment is fair , but why on earth would you call my question “sodding” ? It wasn’t my intention to trick anyone, just an honest frustration with the situation, and ,yes, I know that life is unfair.. [/QUOTE] Sorry, _sodding_ was just my way of expressing honest frustration. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justification-for-using-pirated-software/375320/53 "2006-10-06T08:41:27Z")
Well, I am not a totally honest person but I do wonder. We are so distraught at the antics of the young. Where did they learn that stealing was ok? Think it might be when they heard good old dad bragging about he put to Billy G? _Your ability to Intellectualize allows you to Rationalize which will get you Institutionalized!_ ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justification-for-using-pirated-software/375320/54 "2006-10-06T13:41:50Z")
[QUOTE=treis] That’s a pretty weak argument. People in Europe don’t pay for health care but it’s not as though we have a rash of people saying “Screw this, they don’t pay for health care in Sweden so why should I pay this bill?” [/QUOTE] No, but when a co-worker or boss brags about getting free cable, watch how many others try to find out how they can do it also. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justification-for-using-pirated-software/375320/55 "2006-10-06T14:13:31Z")
[QUOTE=justqwerty] The fact that exist a cheaper/free substitution is absolutely irrelevant, let’s compare apples with apples. I need Vista ..for better or for worse… because I don’t want to have compatibility problems with other soft/users so, please, don’t tell me to use Linux ,ubunty, whatever.. [/QUOTE] Presumably, if you absolutely _need_ to use a particular application that runs only on Windows, for which there exists no alternative on a free operating system, you’re paying for _that_. Why not pay for the OS? ---
**Author:** ![justqwerty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/59ef9b/32.png) [@justqwerty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justqwerty)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justification-for-using-pirated-software/375320/56 "2006-10-06T18:33:30Z")
Thanks to everyone for your replies. But we are far of topic now. Let me repeat … my question wasn’t about Windows (it was just an example). The idea was to highlight the disparity between universal price on soft/books/music/ and the economic realities in different countries, which is one of the reasons people pirate things. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justification-for-using-pirated-software/375320/57 "2006-10-06T21:52:14Z")
OK, but honestly, what did you actually expect us to say? ---
**Author:** ![justqwerty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/59ef9b/32.png) [@justqwerty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justqwerty)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justification-for-using-pirated-software/375320/58 "2006-10-06T22:06:19Z")
\*\*Mangetout \*\* see post #40 on this thread ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justification-for-using-pirated-software/375320/59 "2006-10-06T22:14:59Z")
OK, yes, I remember that. So what’s the solution? Sell Windows dirt cheap elsewhere? The market here will be flooded with grey imports. I’m still not sure what the actual problem is… Is it: -That people can’t afford an operating system, and will suffer some terrible fate without one, or just have to sit twiddling their thumbs? or -That people will be compelled to pirate copy, and this is bad for the manufacturers? or -That people will be compelled to pirate copy, and this exposes them to prosecution? What? What is the problem? How can it be solved without resorting to draconian anti-competitive legislation? ---
**Author:** ![justqwerty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/59ef9b/32.png) [@justqwerty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justqwerty)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2006, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justification-for-using-pirated-software/375320/60 "2006-10-06T22:34:47Z")
**I’m still not sure what the actual problem is** how about : the problem is “the lack of acknowledgment that there is a problem” nobody seems to see anything wrong/unfair with the current state of affairs. Now ,what’s the solution ? I do not know. Perhaps in indexing the price of software ( or another intellectual property) in different countries according to PPP or the Mac Index and then ENFORCE compliance, but that’s a topic on it’s own. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justification-for-using-pirated-software/375320.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justification-for-using-pirated-software/375320.md?page=4)