# Justified vigilantism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 24, 2019, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justified-vigilantism/835978 "2019-06-24T18:55:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justified-vigilantism/835978/101 "2019-06-27T16:38:12Z")
Please drop the matter of assault weapons vs. assault rifles in this thread. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justified-vigilantism/835978/102 "2019-06-27T16:41:03Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Do you mean the guy from the OP? The one who rammed his car into his wife’s car? … > I don’t think he’s had time for prosecution to occur. Still waiting on a court date, I imagine. Does that matter? He has a charge against him and a protective order in place. The law says having a protective order in place is sufficient to require turning over the weapons. Yes, and thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justified-vigilantism/835978/103 "2019-06-27T16:43:59Z")
I know this prolly just got lost in the shuffle and noise: > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Why not just not prosecute her? > > The chance that she’d burglarize anyone else seems nonexistent to me, she has no history of previous burglaries and there were extenuating circumstances where she reasonably feared for not just her own safety but the safety of her children. She didn’t hurt anyone; she didn’t sell the guns for profit and she didn’t lie about what she did. > > What does society gain by prosecuting this woman at all? …but I think the question at the end is a really good one: What does society gain by prosecuting this woman at all? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justified-vigilantism/835978/104 "2019-06-27T16:55:10Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > The law says having a protective order in place is sufficient to require turning over the weapons. The law does not say, however, that this means someone else can break into your place while you are in jail and take your guns. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justified-vigilantism/835978/105 "2019-06-27T16:58:00Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Do you mean the guy from the OP? The one who rammed his car into his wife’s car? Not the guy **Translucent Daydream** brought up? > > I don’t think he’s had time for prosecution to occur. Still waiting on a court date, I imagine. Does that matter? He has a charge against him and a protective order in place. The law says having a protective order in place is sufficient to require turning over the weapons. My guy had already killed his spouse and never showed up for trial after being let out of jail the next morning. I guess he is still wanted for that too. I ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justified-vigilantism/835978/106 "2019-06-27T17:19:17Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I know this prolly just got lost in the shuffle and noise: > …but I think the question at the end is a really good one: What does society gain by prosecuting this woman at all? The extenuating circumstances _might_ be disputed by some, and the ex-husband _might_ consider the loss of his weapons to be a harm; the law certainly says her actions amount to a felonious crime against the state. I do not speak for society but it is possible that failing to prosecute deprives society of the rule of law (in a small way). Of importance is her confession at the police station. That might be ruled inadmissible in court, but to the prosecutor it shatters any presumption of innocence. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justified-vigilantism/835978/107 "2019-06-27T17:34:03Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I do not speak for society but it is possible that failing to prosecute deprives society of the rule of law (in a small way). Then the rule of law was destroyed a long time ago, because no prosecutor is capable of prosecuting every case that is presented. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justified-vigilantism/835978/108 "2019-06-27T17:43:49Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The law does not say, however, that this means someone else can break into your place while you are in jail and take your guns. I guess the gun owner’s credo of “better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6” only applies to people who possess guns at the particular moment. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justified-vigilantism/835978/109 "2019-06-27T18:46:11Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > … > > Of importance is her confession at the police station. That might be ruled inadmissible in court, but to the prosecutor it shatters any presumption of innocence. IANAL but a spontaneous confession is admissible, unless she was being questioned. Walk up to a cop and say “I just killed my wife” and that is admissible. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justified-vigilantism/835978/110 "2019-06-27T19:48:36Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I know this prolly just got lost in the shuffle and noise: > …but I think the question at the end is a really good one: What does society gain by prosecuting this woman at all? I don’t disagree with you but did you just self-quote ? I mean… You know. I ain’t judging, but y’alls toot your own horns on your own time and in the privacy of youse own homes. So as not to frighten the horses. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justified-vigilantism/835978/111 "2019-06-27T19:49:50Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Please drop the matter of assault weapons vs. assault rifles in this thread. > > [/moderating] Fucking THANK YOU. \*Every \*fucking time… ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justified-vigilantism/835978/112 "2019-06-27T20:18:43Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Fucking THANK YOU. \*Every \*fucking time… Agree. It’s much better to wallow in self inflicted ignorance. If she stole an assault rifle, she should have been charged with possession of an unregistered NFA weapon as well. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justified-vigilantism/835978/113 "2019-06-27T21:05:33Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > In this specific example I would commend him for preventing a fire. I would not press charges for breaking and entering unless there was evidence that he did other things while in the house or I had reason to believe he fabricated the story about sparks. If the parents were estranged and asked me to press charges for stealing the lamp, I would chastise him for taking the lamp off the premises, because simply unplugging the lamp removes the immediate threat of fire. I presume he could have informed his parents not to use that particular lamp. If not he could have unplugged the lamp and then called police then and there - “I saw sparks coming from a lamp in my parent’s house so I broke in and unplugged it. I can’t reach them by phone and I don’t want them to plug it back in and start a fire. What should I do?”. If he didn’t have a phone at the time we have a real conundrum about intent. It is best left to a jury to decide such things. > > ~Max Trials are expensive. The best use of public resources is to not have a trial that will result in acquittal in five minutes. I don’t think respect for the law is enhanced when the jury comments to the prosecutor “why the fuck did you even bring this to court?” As I noted, the prosecutor in the nearby district does not agree with you about the wisdom of prosecuting the case in question. We don’t know if the prosecutor in that district does yet. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justified-vigilantism/835978/114 "2019-06-27T21:07:33Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > Agree. It’s much better to wallow in self inflicted ignorance. > > If she stole an assault rifle, she should have been charged with possession of an unregistered NFA weapon as well. So, if I find a weapon on the street, pick it up and bring it to my house and then call the police to pick it up, I should be charged with possession? Ditto if I drive it to the police station to turn it in? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justified-vigilantism/835978/115 "2019-06-27T22:50:28Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I don’t disagree with you but did you just self-quote ? I mean… You know. I ain’t judging, but y’alls toot your own horns on your own time and in the privacy of youse own homes. So as not to frighten the horses. Yes, I did. I didn’t see any need to type it all out again but I didn’t want people to think I didn’t know I was repeating myself. For “not judging” your whole post is pretty judge-y, as well as way off-the-mark (there was no horn tooting, for instance). I know it’s late there; have another beer and relax, dude. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2019, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justified-vigilantism/835978/116 "2019-06-27T23:26:40Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Please drop the matter of assault weapons vs. assault rifles in this thread. > > [/moderating] > [@Kobal2](#): > > Fucking THANK YOU. \*Every \*fucking time… > [@JXJohns](#): > > Agree. It’s much better to wallow in self inflicted ignorance. > > If she stole an assault rifle, she should have been charged with possession of an unregistered NFA weapon as well. > [@Voyager](#): > > So, if I find a weapon on the street, pick it up and bring it to my house and then call the police to pick it up, I should be charged with possession? Ditto if I drive it to the police station to turn it in? Some of you have a hard time understanding don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justified-vigilantism/835978/117 "2019-06-28T00:30:42Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > So, if I find a weapon on the street, pick it up and bring it to my house and then call the police to pick it up, I should be charged with possession? Ditto if I drive it to the police station to turn it in? Generally speaking for all firearms, yes that is a chargeable offense if that possession was prohibited. Even moreso if you are a prohibited person. If possession is prohibited, there are few defenses that are available. Of course, depending on how sympathetic the incident is, DAs may decline to pursue. But they could. ---
**Author:** ![drivekiller](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@drivekiller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drivekiller)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justified-vigilantism/835978/118 "2019-06-28T00:43:26Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > … what would have happened had she simply called dialed 911 from the guy’s parking lot and explained the situation? I’m going with **Nothing** The fact is, he was ordered by the court to surrender the guns. She was acting on his behalf, like women so often do, so he wouldn’t rack up more charges in the unlikely event that the police got around to enforcing the court order. Or more likely-- when her body was discovered. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justified-vigilantism/835978/119 "2019-06-28T00:52:11Z")
> [@drivekiller](#): > > I’m going with **Nothing** > > The fact is, he was ordered by the court to surrender the guns. She was acting on his behalf, like women so often do, so he wouldn’t rack up more charges in the unlikely event that the police got around to enforcing the court order. Or more likely-- when her body was discovered. 😃 What in any of the cites provided makes you think she was breaking into his place and stealing his property on his behalf? Give me a break… ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2019, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justified-vigilantism/835978/120 "2019-06-28T00:59:06Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Some of you have a hard time understanding don’t you? Just what this thread needed, a junior moderator. Here’s a hint, none of the posts you quoted had anything to do with assault weapon vs. assault rifles. Thanks! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justified-vigilantism/835978.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justified-vigilantism/835978.md?page=7)