# Justify Wins the Triple Crown **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 10, 2018, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justify-wins-the-triple-crown/815794 "2018-06-10T01:18:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2018, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justify-wins-the-triple-crown/815794/1 "2018-06-10T01:18:26Z")
We got another Triple Crown winner, after American Pharoah in 2015. Way to go, Justify! ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2018, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justify-wins-the-triple-crown/815794/2 "2018-06-10T01:21:35Z")
American Pharoah wins after 30 years of nothingness and we collectively freak out. Justify wins just 2 years later and we ho hum about it and say “That’s pretty cool.” It reminds me of Russel Westbrook averaging a triple double last year and almost winning MVP and the amazement around that feat. Then he does it again and is never talked about. We do know this is, like, SUPER hard, right? ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2018, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justify-wins-the-triple-crown/815794/3 "2018-06-10T15:32:33Z")
This one was extra special because: 1. Justify was the only Kentucky Derby winner since Apollo in 1882 to win the Kentucky Derby. 2. Justify was the only unraced two-year old to win the Triple Crown, ever. 3. This was a pretty darn good crop of three-year olds. And no previous Triple Crown winner faced more than seven opponents in the final leg. Justify defeated nine. Outstanding performances by Justify, trainer Bob Baffert, and Jockey Mike Smith. Hell of a season. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2018, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justify-wins-the-triple-crown/815794/4 "2018-06-10T15:41:48Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > American Pharoah wins after 30 years of nothingness and we collectively freak out. Justify wins just 2 years later and we ho hum about it and say “That’s pretty cool.” Pretty much the same thing happened with Secretariat and Seattle Slew (coincidentally, the only horse before Justify to win the Triple Crown without having a lost a race before that). We collectively freaked out because of the decades without one. But there’s still the “fourth jewel” - the Travers. IIRC, only one Triple Crown winner has also won the Travers Stakes - Whirlaway, in 1941, although Affirmed “almost” did it (he crossed the finish line first, but was disqualified). ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2018, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justify-wins-the-triple-crown/815794/5 "2018-06-10T15:47:21Z")
> [@ChickenLegs](#): > > This one was extra special because: > > 1. Justify was the only Kentucky Derby winner since Apollo in 1882 to win the Kentucky Derby. I don’t really follow horse racing beyond the usual pop culture knowledge of Secretariat and Affirmed and stuff like that, but what does this mean? ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2018, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justify-wins-the-triple-crown/815794/6 "2018-06-10T15:50:41Z")
I mistyped. It should read: 1. Justify was the only horse that didn’t race as a two-year old since Apollo in 1882 to win the Kentucky Derby. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2018, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justify-wins-the-triple-crown/815794/7 "2018-06-10T19:19:58Z")
> [@ChickenLegs](#): > > I mistyped. > > It should read: > > 1. Justify was the only horse that didn’t race as a two-year old since Apollo in 1882 to win the Kentucky Derby. I’m still confused… If I’m properly parsing your words above you’re saying Justify wasn’t a two-year-old, but you also said: > [@](#): > > 1. Justify was the only unraced two-year old to win the Triple Crown, ever. Justify was not a two-year-old but was an unraced two-year-old? 😕 Or were you trying to say that Justify didn’t race when the horse was two years old, yet went on to win these significant races later on, a feat not ever done before? If so that was a bit awkward. But I guess it would be equivalent to a human athlete who never played a sport in high school or college yet went into that sport as a professional later in life and reached the pinnacle of that sport. In that case I understand how that would be a significant achievement. If I completely misunderstood you please elucidate. ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justify-wins-the-triple-crown/815794/8 "2018-06-10T20:44:14Z")
Gronkowski started poorly, was well back at the half-mile and finished second. Was that recovery as amazing to real fans of the sport as it was to a casual fan? ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2018, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justify-wins-the-triple-crown/815794/9 "2018-06-10T21:02:59Z")
> [@tim-n-va](#): > > Gronkowski started poorly, was well back at the half-mile and finished second. Was that recovery as amazing to real fans of the sport as it was to a casual fan? For horse racing it’s not that unusual. It can happen for various reasons. The horse gets boxed in, and needs to maneuver into position before lengthening their stride for example. In longer races, jockeys will hold horses back until other horses get tired and then let their horses move forward. Particularly in longer races there is a risk in making a run too early. Your horse may run out of steam and fail on the stretch (or sooner). Knowing your horse and timing is key. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2018, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justify-wins-the-triple-crown/815794/10 "2018-06-10T22:20:02Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I’m still confused… If I’m properly parsing your words above you’re saying Justify wasn’t a two-year-old, but you also said: > Justify was not a two-year-old but was an unraced two-year-old? 😕 > > Or were you trying to say that Justify didn’t race when the horse was two years old, yet went on to win these significant races later on, a feat not ever done before? If so that was a bit awkward. > > But I guess it would be equivalent to a human athlete who never played a sport in high school or college yet went into that sport as a professional later in life and reached the pinnacle of that sport. In that case I understand how that would be a significant achievement. > > If I completely misunderstood you please elucidate. I think you got it. Justify broke the “Apollo Curse” by being the first horse since Apollo in 1882 to not have raced as a 2-year old and to have won the Kentucky Derby as a 3-year old (and the KY Derby is only for 3-year olds). That was the talk back at the beginning of May, after the KY Derby. Then later, after yesterday’s Belmont and the Triple Crown, Justify became the only horse ever to win the TC that did not race as a 2-year old. Justify’s run is also amazing because his first-ever race that he ran was only 2½ months before the KY Derby. From his first race on 18 February to his TC win at Belmony yesterday, only 111 days elapsed. Justify had to mature his race skills in such a short time. ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2018, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justify-wins-the-triple-crown/815794/11 "2018-06-10T22:47:40Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I’m still confused… If I’m properly parsing your words above you’re saying Justify wasn’t a two-year-old, but you also said: > Justify was not a two-year-old but was an unraced two-year-old? 😕 > > Or were you trying to say that Justify didn’t race when the horse was two years old, yet went on to win these significant races later on, a feat not ever done before? If so that was a bit awkward. > > But I guess it would be equivalent to a human athlete who never played a sport in high school or college yet went into that sport as a professional later in life and reached the pinnacle of that sport. In that case I understand how that would be a significant achievement. > > If I completely misunderstood you please elucidate. Yes. Thanks, Bullitt. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2018, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justify-wins-the-triple-crown/815794/12 "2018-06-13T07:02:57Z")
I’m just glad this gives us a little less reason to talk about American Typo. I am never going to be able to like that horse, speaking as someone whose job it is to spell things correctly. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2018, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justify-wins-the-triple-crown/815794/13 "2018-06-13T09:07:47Z")
It’s not the horse’s fault that his name is misspelled. Be annoyed at the misspelling, but don’t take it out on the horse. Unlike a human he can’t go to a judge and say “Your honor, I’d like to change my name to a more conventional spelling”. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2018, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justify-wins-the-triple-crown/815794/14 "2018-06-13T19:59:39Z")
> [@Snooooopy](#): > > I’m just glad this gives us a little less reason to talk about American Typo. I am never going to be able to like that horse, speaking as someone whose job it is to spell things correctly. You know, “American Typo” would be a fun name for one of his foals. ---
**Author:** ![DKW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dkw/32/3118_2.png) [@DKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DKW)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justify-wins-the-triple-crown/815794/15 "2018-06-14T08:33:09Z")
The only reason I paid any attention to American Pharaoh in the first place was that not only had it been _so long_ since the last Triple Crown winner, but so many…SO, SO, SO DAMN MANY…horses won both the Kentucky Derby and Preakness stakes, often in _very_ dominating fashion, but always, _always_ found a way to not close the deal. Once more, with feeling, It’s Not Rocket Surgery!'s excellent 2014 rundown of all the heartbreaking near-misses (and of course add California Chrome’s 4th that year). > [@With the Triple Crown try coming up - Ask the Horse Racing Fan](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/with-the-triple-crown-try-coming-up-ask-the-horse-racing-fan/690040/33): > > From memory (not that tough a task, I was present for most of these): > 1979 - Spectacular Bid, 3rd - He got a safety pin caught in his hoof the morning of the Belmont, plus his jockey moved him to challenge a hopeless longshot early. Probably the best horse to win the first two and lose the Belmont; he won all 9 races the following year and set several track records in doing so. > 1981 - Pleasant Colony, 3rd - Improved a ton in the race before the Derby and appeared to be knocked out by the 3 huge efforts going into the Belmont. > 1987 - Alysheba, 4th - Uncharacteristically showed speed and tired; the winner had finished a close 2nd in the first two legs so wasn’t a surprise; another horse who was dominant the next year. > 1989 - Sunday Silence, 2nd - Had equally-talented archrival, Easy Goer, who loved racing at Belmont and ran the second-fastest Belmont ever that day. Had either of these two horses not had to face each other, they probably would have both won Triple Crowns. > 1997- Silver Charm, 2nd - Happened to win the first two legs against a couple of closely matched rivals, and just got run down late by one of them here. > 1998 - Real Quiet, 2nd - Just got beaten a nose by equally-talented rival who had finished second in the first two legs after opening up a lead coming out of the turn. By the way, if California Chrome loses tomorrow, I think this is the most likely scenario. > 1999 - Charismatic, 3rd - Like Pleasant Colony, improved a ton 1 race before the Derby, and was overused in his 3 straight big efforts. Broke a leg very late in the race; finished anyway but was saved when his jockey jumped off just past the finish. > 2002 - War Emblem, 8th? - Pure frontrunner who stumbled out of the gate and was immediately taken out of his game. There are quite a few horses with a front-running running style who quit when unable to reach the lead. > 2003 - Funny Cide, 3rd - Was too keen for the race; had a very fast workout that week and tried to lead all the way; beaten by talented rivals, including the Derby favorite who had finished 2nd in that race. > 2004 - Smarty Jones, 2nd - Beaten by race tactics. Hounded by two rivals in the early portions of the race and ran way too fast in the middle part of the race as a result; still opened a lead coming out of the turn but couldn’t hold off a fresh challenger who had stayed out of the early fray. > 2008 - Big Brown, eased out of the race - Who knows? Take your pick of a) loosened a shoe on the first turn; b) went nuts in the “detention barn” where stakes horses must wait during the day while they are watched; or c) did not receive his monthly dose of (then-legal) steroids for the first time. > 2012 - I’ll Have Another, scratched - Scratched the day before the Belmont (and retired) with a flareup of a chronic leg injury. **THIRTEEN TIMES. THIRTEEN GODDAM TIMES.** It was _unbelievable_. This was similar to the “curses” you hear bandied about every so often. You keep thinking, it has to end sometime. It’s ridiculous that it lasted that long. Okay, this will be the one. All right, this one. How about this one? This one? Please??? Pretty pretty please??? Like a gambler who keeps betting on “Pass” and sees missout after missout after missout after missout, over and over and over, giving the law of averages a pounding, then a machinegunning, all the way up to total nuclear war, _and it keeps going from there_ (or vice-versa; that’s what that “standoff” thing is for :D), all the while growing ever more exasperated, more panicked, more hysterical, “C’MON, THIS CAN’T LAST FOREVER!! IT CAN’T!! IT CAN’T!!” And then…it happened. Just like that. Guess the 85,693rd time was the charm after all. You can relax, world! Susan Lucci got her Emmy! Chinese Democracy got released! So did Duke Nukem Forever! A black man got elected President! The torment is over! We can finally get along with our lives now. And then, a little while after…three years, to be exact…it happens again. Remember when the Boston Red Sox, after rolling what seemed like several fricking million 1s in a row, finally, _finally_ got that blessed 2 and won the World Series in 2004? It was _monumental_. The Curse has existed for **85 years**. It had become one of the fundamental laws of nature. It was as inviolable as the universe itself. And just like that, it was over (and after most ridiculous reverse sweep I’ve seen in my life). Baseball would never, _ever_ be the same again. The 2004 World Series…hell, the entire playoffs (seriously, what was _up_ with that reverse sweep?)…was a game-changer. A _world_-changer. And then, a little while after…three years, to be exact…it happened again. And everyone was like…wait a minute, it really _was_ just a weirdo coincidence? No vengeful god, no spiteful universe, no eldritch horror machinations? 85-year unlucky streaks just _happen_ sometimes? And guess what? They do. And that’s exactly where I am with Justify. Why the horrible drought? Why 13 stalwarts cruelly cut down one by one? No reason. It just happened. Not to take anything from the fact that it was a spectacular achievement, for reasons ChickenLegs already mentioned. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justify-wins-the-triple-crown/815794/16 "2018-06-14T14:15:47Z")
Good post **DKW**. Got a link to **It’s Not Rocket Surgery** ’s post? I think it’s from 2014, from your 2015 post here (shortened with goo.gl, because the full URL gets truncated): [https://goo.gl/Z7b78K](https://goo.gl/Z7b78K) ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justify-wins-the-triple-crown/815794/17 "2018-06-14T14:21:21Z")
And I think again, like after American Pharoah, of the crybaby Steve Coburn. He’s the owner of California Chrome who said it’s _ **so unfair!!!** having horses enter the Belmont without having run in the KYD or Preakness, that he’d never see a TC winner ever in his lifetime_. And now he’s seen 2 of them. ---
**Author:** ![DKW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dkw/32/3118_2.png) [@DKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DKW)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justify-wins-the-triple-crown/815794/18 "2018-06-15T02:52:14Z")
Might be better to give you [the whole thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=725184); context and everything. The post in question is #33. I wouldn’t be too hard on Coburn. I can understand the frustration in learning the hard way how the system works; heck, it’s happened to me more times than I care to admit. If he _continued_ grumbling, yeah, get a life, you loser, but at the the time he was just voicing what a lot of people involved in the sport were thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justify-wins-the-triple-crown/815794/19 "2018-06-15T03:59:36Z")
> [@DKW](#): > > Might be better to give you [the whole thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=725184); context and everything. The post in question is #33. > > I wouldn’t be too hard on Coburn. I can understand the frustration in learning the hard way how the system works; heck, it’s happened to me more times than I care to admit. If he _continued_ grumbling, yeah, get a life, you loser, but at the the time he was just voicing what a lot of people involved in the sport were thinking. Thanks for the link. I’d forgotten about Ruffian. Good points about Coburn. Thanks again. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2018, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justify-wins-the-triple-crown/815794/20 "2018-06-15T06:47:29Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > It’s not the horse’s fault that his name is misspelled. Be annoyed at the misspelling, but don’t take it out on the horse. Unlike a human he can’t go to a judge and say “Your honor, I’d like to change my name to a more conventional spelling”. That’s very logical, and I’m not going to do it. Having to render said error over and over in enormous headline type – I’m a newspaper page designer, just so it’s clear – makes me grit my teeth every time I think about it. In any case, I’m sure that the horse, having moved on to a life of unlimited pampering and chicks, will be able to handle me griping a little bit. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justify-wins-the-triple-crown/815794.md?page=2)