# Justin Amash-The future of the GOP? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 7, 2014, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justin-amash-the-future-of-the-gop/695024 "2014-08-07T11:57:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justin-amash-the-future-of-the-gop/695024/101 "2014-08-09T13:12:28Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Its unfortunate that the moderate, spineless neoliberals that dominate much of the Democratic Party would do this. However the genuine progressives in the party would very much prefer to remove the regressive payroll tax cap and expand Social Security instead of this betrayal. Well Lord help us if the genuine progressives come to power. The superiority of private retirement funds that I outlined would still stand in that case. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justin-amash-the-future-of-the-gop/695024/102 "2014-08-09T13:24:12Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Tea Party nut’s telling tantrum: What Justin Amash’s victory speech revealed about GOP.](http://www.salon.com/2014/08/07/tea_party_nuts_telling_tantrum_what_justin_amashs_victory_speech_revealed_about_gop/) The speech points that special interests don’t dominate his coffers, calls out a congressman turned lobbyist, and denounces a smear campaign by a potentially racist warmongering crony capitalist, while simultaneously celebrating a victory over the political “elite” . Seems like something Salon would cheer. But alas libertarians represent a threat to the stale offerings of modern progressives, therefore he must be demagogued as a “Tea Party Nut”. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justin-amash-the-future-of-the-gop/695024/103 "2014-08-09T13:48:45Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Another example: there’s a small number of people who are impressed by how far Ron Paul got in two Republican presidential primaries. Well, guess what: just because he continued his campaign far longer than he should have, doesn’t mean he was popular. On various measures, Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum were far more successful candidates than Ron Paul, but it’s just simply a cool thing to say that Ron Paul and his small band of followers are changing the party or whatever. No what surprised people was the vast sums of money he raised. What also surprised people was the fervor of his supporters. The third thing that surprised people about his campaign was the level of success in the Iowa Caucuses and New Hampshire Primary. The last thing that surprised them was the effectiveness of delegate strategy in turning low primary vote totals into substantial numbers of delegates. This last surprise did in fact represent a challenge to the party, in particular a challenge to their desire to mimic the Democrats’ stalinesque solidarity at the convention. This is evident in the rule changes that took place during and after the primaries and convention. Whether or not the Paulians will change the party is impossible to say. Did William Jennings Bryan change the Democratic party in his failed bids? History shows that he did ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2014, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justin-amash-the-future-of-the-gop/695024/104 "2014-08-09T20:13:00Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Did William Jennings Bryan change the Democratic party in his failed bids? History shows that he did History also shows that Bryan was a three-time presidential candidate, and thus hardly failed in his bids for the nomination. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justin-amash-the-future-of-the-gop/695024/105 "2014-08-11T07:39:02Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Well Lord help us if the genuine progressives come to power. The superiority of private retirement funds that I outlined would still stand in that case. The problem is that defined benefit plans have been on the decline about private retirement funds: [http://www.salon.com/2013/04/04/abolish\_the\_401k/](http://www.salon.com/2013/04/04/abolish_the_401k/) ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justin-amash-the-future-of-the-gop/695024/106 "2014-08-12T15:58:40Z")
> [@42fish](#): > > History also shows that Bryan was a three-time presidential candidate, and thus hardly failed in his bids for the nomination. Bryan was never going to win the presidency. His failed bids were more important historically in how he changed the party. > [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > The problem is that defined benefit plans have been on the decline about private retirement funds: [http://www.salon.com/2013/04/04/abolish\_the\_401k/](http://www.salon.com/2013/04/04/abolish_the_401k/) Hm, government takes over the retirement savings business and private savings suffers? No way! 401k is inferior as well because it has too many regulations with what can be done with the money and when. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justin-amash-the-future-of-the-gop/695024/107 "2014-08-12T20:29:29Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Bryan was never going to win the presidency. His failed bids were more important historically in how he changed the party. How did he change the party? ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justin-amash-the-future-of-the-gop/695024/108 "2014-08-13T18:12:57Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Bryan was never going to win the presidency. His failed bids were more important historically in how he changed the party. So I take it you’re still pushing the theory that a guy who won his party’s nomination three times and a guy who repeatedly ran for the nomination without breaking into double digit %ages of support are equally likely to change their party. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justin-amash-the-future-of-the-gop/695024/109 "2014-08-15T14:19:51Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > This likely leads you to make preposterous claims such as Ron Paul is never a libertarian. Yeah, that’s preposterous. What’s more libertarian than banning abortion, flag burning, gay adoption, and same-sex marriage? Or supporting the death penalty? Paul is like every other GOP “libertarian”: he’s an economic crank who gets labeled a libertarian because he breaks with the GOP on one or two foreign policy and law enforcement issues. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justin-amash-the-future-of-the-gop/695024/110 "2014-08-15T19:11:21Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Yeah, that’s preposterous. What’s more libertarian than banning abortion, flag burning, gay adoption, and same-sex marriage? Or supporting the death penalty? Paul is like every other GOP “libertarian”: he’s an economic crank who gets labeled a libertarian because he breaks with the GOP on one or two foreign policy and law enforcement issues. Ron Paul [ran for President](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Paul_presidential_campaign,_1988) as the nominee of the Libertarian Party in 1988. I think it’s reasonably fair to call him a libertarian, even if he doesn’t completely pass a purity test. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justin-amash-the-future-of-the-gop/695024/111 "2014-08-15T19:41:56Z")
That’s ridiculous. The Libertarian Party’s candidates are almost invariably mainstream Republicans who don’t mind pot. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2014, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justin-amash-the-future-of-the-gop/695024/112 "2014-08-15T23:05:30Z")
Care to elaborate on your thesis, or should I just take it on your good word? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justin-amash-the-future-of-the-gop/695024/113 "2014-08-17T15:44:49Z")
> [@42fish](#): > > So I take it you’re still pushing the theory that a guy who won his party’s nomination three times and a guy who repeatedly ran for the nomination without breaking into double digit %ages of support are equally likely to change their party. Not sure where I said they were equally likely. Could you point it out for me. I’m used to having words put in my mouth but that’s a bit much. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Yeah, that’s preposterous. What’s more libertarian than banning abortion, flag burning, gay adoption, and same-sex marriage? Or supporting the death penalty? Paul is like every other GOP “libertarian”: he’s an economic crank who gets labeled a libertarian because he breaks with the GOP on one or two foreign policy and law enforcement issues. There is a very very simple concept that comes up in libertarianism often enough that even amateur wise-crackers should be familiar with by now. That concept is decentralization of political power. Now it is not libertarian per se to favor a decentralized power structure, but many libertarians believe it will lead to a “blossoming of liberty”. Now go away and find Paul’s actual positions on these matters. That is something he has said or written. Do not come to me with a lengthy diatribe from Salon where they lack the integrity to quote from the man. Once you have done that, we can discuss whether these are libertarian positions, or one of the few times Paul has deviated from a pure libertarian position. As to your last sentence. Paul was against all Iraq wars, including the one Obama is brewing up with encouragement from GOP hawks. That alone exceeds the “one or two” limit you placed on his foreign policy disagreements with the GOP. I could go on all day in this vein but it would be easier for you to admit that you hastily threw that last sentence together while you were preoccupied with deciding what was for dinner. Preposterous indeed. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2014, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justin-amash-the-future-of-the-gop/695024/114 "2014-08-17T15:48:48Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > How did he change the party? Grover Cleveland- hard money non-interventionist at home and abroad Then comes Bryan. Democrats never looked back. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justin-amash-the-future-of-the-gop/695024/115 "2014-08-18T18:17:23Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Not sure where I said they were equally likely. Could you point it out for me. I’m used to having words put in my mouth but that’s a bit much. So, then > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Whether or not the Paulians will change the party is impossible to say. Did William Jennings Bryan change the Democratic party in his failed bids? History shows that he did. was just random bloviating and not an attempt at equivalency. Sorry to have mistakenly taken you seriously. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2014, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justin-amash-the-future-of-the-gop/695024/116 "2014-08-18T22:46:04Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Grover Cleveland- hard money non-interventionist at home and abroad > > Then comes Bryan. Democrats never looked back. Bryan was interventionist abroad? ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justin-amash-the-future-of-the-gop/695024/117 "2014-08-19T15:31:50Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Bryan was interventionist abroad? Well, if you ignore the minor technical detail that one of the main planks of his 1900 campaign was ‘anti-imperialism,’ then sure. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justin-amash-the-future-of-the-gop/695024/118 "2014-08-24T02:06:51Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Nut? The ADA gave him a 65% rating. Sounds to me like he’s the very definition of someone who can reach across the aisle. Plus the article mentions he worked with John Conyers. > > If he’s a nut, what does it say about the Democrats he works with? That’s some pretty precise cherry picking. How’d he score in 2011? What about 2013? Aside from the fact that he scored poorly in years other than 2012, it was noted earlier that he doesn’t agree with his Democratic counterparts as much as he occasionally reaches the same decision for entirely different reasons. For example, you and I agree that ACA isn’t a very good long-term solution to our healthcare problems, but I’m pretty sure our replacement solutions are about as opposite as is possible. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justin-amash-the-future-of-the-gop/695024/119 "2014-08-24T18:27:10Z")
[The GOP’s libertarian time bomb: Why “going Rand” would be an electoral disaster.](http://www.salon.com/2014/08/23/the_gops_libertarian_time_bomb_why_going_rand_would_be_an_electoral_disaster/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/justin-amash-the-future-of-the-gop/695024.md?page=5)