# Juvenile boot camps don't make sense - Did they ever make sense? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 17, 2004, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-boot-camps-dont-make-sense-did-they-ever-make-sense/269651 "2004-10-17T09:02:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-boot-camps-dont-make-sense-did-they-ever-make-sense/269651/21 "2004-10-18T03:34:25Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > And yet they somehow didn’t get to be the capital of Greece. There must’ve been a miscount. You’re joking right? Because if you’re not then I don’t even know where to begin. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-boot-camps-dont-make-sense-did-they-ever-make-sense/269651/22 "2004-10-18T03:54:37Z")
> [@MGibson](#): > > You’re joking right? Because if you’re not then I don’t even know where to begin. I _am_ joking, and don’t call me Shirley. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-boot-camps-dont-make-sense-did-they-ever-make-sense/269651/23 "2004-10-18T04:07:59Z")
Actually, **Bryan** … he called you “Wright.” Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-boot-camps-dont-make-sense-did-they-ever-make-sense/269651/24 "2004-10-18T16:00:10Z")
> [@js\_africanus](#): > > I’ve always been under the impression that since there are MPs, maybe boot camp doesn’t eliminate the propensity to commit crimes. It may train people effectively, but that doesn’t mean that it turns them into more civic-minded people. That’s what I’m wondering about. Well, indeed that IS part of the apparent problem with youth “correctional” bootcamps. The explanation, however, is within the apparently challenged **mks57** ’s statement about the bootcamp model working well _“for military recruits”_, which he then expands upon by explaining: > [@](#): > > “…but that is a self-selected population […] quite a few recruits would get dropped from boot camp for physical or **psychological** reasons. Another thing, when I finished boot camp, I had additional training in my military specialty to look forward to, plus a job working in that specialty in the field. They didn’t ship me back to my old neighborhood[…]” (emphasis supplied) IOW even the _military_ bootcamp will seek to purge itself of the incorrigible or chronically maladjusted. The system, if all goes well, instills discipline, _ésprit,_ and an increased respect for order _among people who mostly fall within a certain range of the norm_, providing a clear goal and purpose and following up by moving them into another ordered, structured, goal-oriented environment where they will be surrounded by others equally motivated. And even then at any major command in the land you’ll have your share of drunks, pervs, wife-beaters, government-equipment pilferers, conmen, goldbrickers, and naked-prisoner-leashers. In the case of the juvie bootcamp/scared-straigth, if the graduate from the program cannot find himself some sort of goal or focus for his newfound “motivation” out int he Real World, it will not take root. If the program gets forced to accept some kid who is already an evolving sociopath, it will not work for him and only take resources away from some just-confused-by-life kid who could potentialy _be_ set straight. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-boot-camps-dont-make-sense-did-they-ever-make-sense/269651/25 "2004-10-18T16:35:23Z")
> [@MGibson](#): > > On the other hand they might have learned a little something about teamwork, responsibility, and maybe a little self-respect. The same traits they attempt to instill in recruits at military boot camp. People saw this as a way to avoid sending relatively young offenders to real jail and becoming hardened criminals. Although it hasn’t worked (for reasons others have pointed out) it wasn’t such a bad idea at the time. Lazy would have been just saying “Fuck it, send 'em to jail.” > > Marc Read the post above yours. > [@SteveG1](#): > > That type of discipline works for people who are motivated and well adjusted, and for weeding out those who can’t handle pressure. It works for the people it was “designed” to work on. That said, it does not work, and was never “designed” to work on someone with problems. If violent children are violent because they have problems, are not motivated or well-adjusted, then they are not the type of person who will respond to boot-camp style discipline in a positive way. That type of discipline will only make them more dysfunctional. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-boot-camps-dont-make-sense-did-they-ever-make-sense/269651/26 "2004-10-18T20:08:22Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > Read the post above yours. I read it, so what? I already agreed that the programs have failed and JRDelirious wasn’t the first person to point out why. I just don’t think the boot camp fad was a result of lazy parents like you do. I think a lot of people actually thought this was a viable alternative to sending children to jail. As I said earlier if they really wanted to be lazy they just could have said “fuck it, send the little bastards to jail” and been done with it. The fact that it didn’t work doesn’t mean people were lazy or sadistic. We’ve been trying to figure out how to rehabilitate criminals for years. Marc ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-boot-camps-dont-make-sense-did-they-ever-make-sense/269651/27 "2004-10-18T23:19:30Z")
Oh, right… and what **Little Nemo** said – as soon as the approach turns out to NOT be a one-size-fits-all “silver bullet”, it gets denounced as a complete failure. That demand for “magic” solutions really distorts the policymaking process. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-boot-camps-dont-make-sense-did-they-ever-make-sense/269651.md?page=1)