# Juvenile delinquent taught at a university **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 7, 2014, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154 "2014-01-07T18:58:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Don\_Simus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@Don\_Simus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Simus)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/1 "2014-01-07T18:58:51Z")
> [@](#): > > In his book Catch Me If You Can a high school dropout Frank W. Abagnale Jr. wrote how he taught sociology at Brigham Young University. While roaming through Utah he saw an ad in a newspaper concerning summer replacement for two sociology professors. The crook produced a fake transcript from Columbia University, where he allegedly got a Ph.D., and a couple of fake recommendation letters from City College of New York, where he allegedly taught. Abagnale was immediately hired and assigned to teach one freshman and one sophomore courses. The head of the sociology department gave him two textbooks to use in the classes. Abagnale read one chapter ahead of his students and had no difficulty teaching the courses. The dean of the faculty and the department head were delighted with his work. > > Of course, Abagnale’s book is well known. So I would not retell it here unless I had a commentary, which might interest the reader. Apart from impersonating a sociology professor the crook impersonated a Pan Am pilot. But what did he do as a pilot? He sported pilot’s uniform and a fake Pan Am ID. Their prestige helped him to win the trust of a bank teller when he was cashing fake checks. He also managed to get unlimited free flights as a passenger. However, he never flew an airplane and never taught anyone to fly. And this is understandable since the consequences would be immediately obvious. However, when Abagnale impersonated a professor it was not about a fake university ID. He actually read five lectures a week for three month and each time made a safe landing. How could this possibly happen? Could it be because the other sociology professors also do not teach their students anything real? [http://ecclesiastes911.net/fake\_sociology\_professor/](http://ecclesiastes911.net/fake_sociology_professor/) And what do you think? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/2 "2014-01-07T19:06:07Z")
You first. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/3 "2014-01-07T19:20:10Z")
This doesn’t surprise me any more than the time that a physicist submitted [a fake paper full of utter nonsense](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_affair) to a respected sociology journal, and got it accepted. EDIT: And what’s this doing in CS, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/4 "2014-01-07T19:36:01Z")
Moved to IMHO from Cafe Society. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/5 "2014-01-07T19:48:23Z")
The conclusion may be correct (i.e. sociology may be BS), but I don’t think it can be demonstrated from those observations. Abegnale taught one freshman and one sophomore level course to undergrads by reading ahead and becoming knowledgeable enough with the material to teach others. If he’d had a knack for mathematics he could have done exactly the same thing with algebra, but that doesn’t in and of itself prove that algebra is BS. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/6 "2014-01-07T19:58:26Z")
> [@Don\_Simus](#): > > [http://ecclesiastes911.net/fake\_sociology\_professor/](http://ecclesiastes911.net/fake_sociology_professor/) > > And what do you think? As **Vinyl Turnip** asked, what do _you_ think? You haven’t told us yet. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/7 "2014-01-07T20:01:34Z")
I think Abegnale’s best scam is where he [successfully passed himself off as a Senator from Arizona for almost thirty years.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Frank_Abagnale_%28cropped%29.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/8 "2014-01-07T20:13:27Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > The conclusion may be correct (i.e. sociology may be BS), but I don’t think it can be demonstrated from those observations. Abegnale taught one freshman and one sophomore level course to undergrads by reading ahead and becoming knowledgeable enough with the material to teach others. If he’d had a knack for mathematics he could have done exactly the same thing with algebra, but that doesn’t in and of itself prove that algebra is BS. Agreed. What is the act of teaching, after all? In one possible simplified interpretation, it is “imparting knowledge”. If he succeeded in doing that, then how does that invalidate the knowledge he taught? The effective imparting of the knowledge and the inherent value of the information are frankly unrelated. However, IMHO he demonstrated the weakness of assuming that a fully credentialed professor is required to teach the subject effectively at a university level. (I will not speak for all teachers everywhere, but it is my understanding that educators are often expected to teach subjects that they are not masters of - to be effective, they do what Abegnale did, they study ahead of the students.) ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/9 "2014-01-07T20:14:50Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I think Abegnale’s best scam is where he [successfully passed himself off as a Senator from Arizona for almost thirty years.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Frank_Abagnale_%28cropped%29.jpg) I was most impressed by his success at passing himself off as a sign language interpreter at Nelson Mandela’s funeral, proving sign language to be the fraud we’ve long suspected. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/10 "2014-01-07T20:18:22Z")
Also, he passed the bar exam in, I believe, LA, so clearly the law is bunk, too. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/11 "2014-01-07T20:20:31Z")
He taught some introductory level courses. I’ve had introductory level courses administered by a Teacher’s Assistant. I can certainly believe that it wouldn’t take much more than reading ahead and a combination of teaching from the text and “what do you think?” classroom discussions but I don’t see where that proves much. He’s reading the words of a skilled sociologist via the text and parroting them back to the class. It would be more interesting if he blindly authored a couple sociology textbooks that other people taught from without noticing the fraud. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/12 "2014-01-07T20:27:28Z")
This will come as a shock, I’m sure, but it’s very possible Frank Abagnale made up some of the stuff in his book. After all, his book was about his history of making stuff up. So while he says he taught classes at Brigham Young University without being caught, he produced no proof of this claim and BYU has publicly stated he never taught there and has produced records showing they never an instructor named Frank Adams (the name Abagnale claims he used as a teacher) or any other of Abagnale’s aliases. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Simus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@Don\_Simus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Simus)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/13 "2014-01-07T20:42:27Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Also, he passed the bar exam in, I believe, LA, so clearly the law is bunk, too. After studying 4 month and only on the third try. And why should law be bunk? You can get certified as a mechanic or a plumber after spending that much time. Of course, law is not bunk since there are laws out there. Just it is not very difficult. Could you please answer one question? Why Abagnale never piloted an airplane? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/14 "2014-01-07T20:45:00Z")
> [@Don\_Simus](#): > > Could you please answer one question? Why Abagnale never piloted an airplane? Because it’s harder to fake than other things. It doesn’t follow, however, that “other things” are illegitimate. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/15 "2014-01-07T20:59:10Z")
He also faked being a doctor, but as was portrayed in the movie, never actually treated anyone. So what does that prove about him pretending to be a college professor/instructor? ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/16 "2014-01-07T21:02:17Z")
> [@Don\_Simus](#): > > Could you please answer one question? Why Abagnale never piloted an airplane? Because he never owned MS Flight Simulator? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/17 "2014-01-07T21:17:10Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > He taught some introductory level courses. I’ve had introductory level courses administered by a Teacher’s Assistant. I can certainly believe that it wouldn’t take much more than reading ahead and a combination of teaching from the text and “what do you think?” classroom discussions but I don’t see where that proves much. He’s reading the words of a skilled sociologist via the text and parroting them back to the class. Right - the skill set he was faking here wasn’t “sociologist,” it was “educator.” He could have picked literally any subject and bluffed his way through a lower-division survey course on it. But leaving that aside, we also don’t know that he was able to teach the class _properly_. He was able to hide his lack of credential from a bunch of students who also don’t know anything about the subject. The administration may have praised his performance, but they’re not talking about his academic performance, they’re only talking about his ability to fulfill the administrative requirements of his position - showing up for work, turning in roll sheets on time, number of student complaints generated, things like that. No one is monitoring him to make sure he’s giving credible interpretations of the works of Herbert Spencer. His attempts to teach sociology might have been as catastrophic failures as his attempt to fly a plane would have been - but screwing up a sociology course doesn’t result in a giant fireball, so it’s harder to notice it’s going on right away. And it looks like Abgenale was only at the college (if he was there at all) for, at most, three semesters - and possibly just the one, depending on how many classes they gave him. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/18 "2014-01-07T21:19:22Z")
Apparently Abnagale’s involvement at BYU could have been as a guest lecturer or [teaching assistant in summer courses](http://www.ksl.com/?sid=234247), not as a “professor”, and that would have left no permanent record. > [@ksl.com](#): > > “We’ve also gone back and talked with people, secretaries, faculty who worked in the department throughout the years and who were there at the time he claims he was here. And again, absolutely no recollection of seeing him or having him here.” > > With that information, it was time to ask Professor Abignale about his Provo plunder. > > Frank Abignale, Famous Con Man: “That was just back in the late 1960’s. I was in Provo and had met a girl whose father was a professor at BYU. And I got to go up and teach just a couple of weeks of a summer course up there more as like a teacher’s aide; it wasn’t really a big thing.” > > Scott Haws: “What alias did you use down there when you actually taught?” > > Frank Abignale, Famous Con Man: “I had so many aliases, I can’t even remember what name I probably used there.” Apparently BYU used the word “semester” to mean whatever length of course got you 3 credits. And IME sociology is one of those disciplines that seems to get no respect. But yes, the fraud was not at sociology it was at _teaching._ ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/19 "2014-01-07T22:07:12Z")
So rather than impersonating a sociology professor as the OP said, he himself said he “got to go up and teach just a couple of weeks of a summer course up there more as like a teacher’s aide.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/20 "2014-01-07T22:18:30Z")
Why was this thrilling escapade not included in _Catch Me If You Can?_ [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154.md?page=2)