# Juvenile delinquent taught at a university **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 7, 2014, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154 "2014-01-07T18:58:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Don\_Simus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@Don\_Simus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Simus)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/201 "2014-01-22T05:38:54Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Being a quadriplegic, for one. Good luck getting Stephen Hawking to successfully fly a plane. (Well, maybe with a metric ton of specialized equipment just for him, but definitely not a typical airplane given the fact that he can barely move his fingers). And what did you type this message with? Your nose? Let’s face it. You are not quadriplegic, not paralyzed and not blind. So what is that which prevents you? Please answer honestly. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/202 "2014-01-22T05:47:10Z")
> [@Don\_Simus](#): > > And what did you type this message with? Your nose? > > Let’s face it. You are not quadriplegic, not paralyzed and not blind. So what is that which prevents you? Please answer honestly. … what the hell do **I** personally have to do with this. Read the words I said: > [@me](#): > > Now, **could** an average PhD learn to land a plane **if they really wanted to or had to? Probably** , assuming there’s no handicaps that prevent them from flying a plane, Emphasis added My point was that **if** they **wanted to or were required to** they would **likely** be able to learn to fly a plane. The stuff about being handicapped was there to exclude the obvious catch cases where someone would not be able to. Why don’t **I** fly a plane? Well, I’m not a PhD, so this conversation has nothing to do with me, but **I** don’t fly a plane because I’m not interested in it. (And even if I were, I probably couldn’t afford the lessons). One would assume that this is the reason the vast majority of people do not fly planes, the next leading factors likely being lack of time to learn and lack of funds to learn, and lack of local programs offering lessons. “Literally unable to do so” is probably pretty far down on the list, PhD or not. This has no bearing on the discussion, however, and you’re missing the point completely. That handicap thing was about as far away from the point of my post as you can get. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/203 "2014-01-22T08:21:53Z")
> [@Don\_Simus](#): > > Because a PhD is a crown jewel of achievement. It qualifies you to produce peer-reviewed research, which is a wonderful thing. For some positions, it’s a bare minimum requirement and you need postdoctoral training to be considered even at entry level. You don’t need a Ph.D. to produce research that may be accepted by peer-reviewed journals. Grads students are co-authors all the time and they may not even have any grad degree yet. Undergraduates are authors on papers. Granted, the senior author is usually a Ph.D. or M.D. or other doctorate holder but that’s more about having a primary investigator position. You don’t think M.D.s publish in _The New England Journal of Medicine_ or _The Lancet_, for example? And, just having a Ph.D. doesn’t mean you are automatically capable of producing research that will be accepted in journals–the peer reviewers will screen it out (in theory, if not always in practice). There are bad researchers, just like there are bad mechanics or bad pilots. > [@](#): > > Which, as you said, is on par with emergency water landing of a jet aircraft. No. You said pilots do not do anything original and I used an emergency water landing as an example of a unique situation where the pilot may have to come up with an original solution. > [@](#): > > Those capable of higher achievements are surely capable of lower ones. So why such an exalted being as yourself can’t make a regular landing of a Cessna on a paved runway? 1). That doesn’t even follow. I don’t think anyone here is saying that flying is a “lower” achievement than, say, research. They’re different. You’re the one that seems to be bizarrely saying that having a pilot’s license is some sort of more real and higher achievement than having a Ph.D. in sociology (or is it any degree from a Mormon university or is it Obama something something). 2). How do you know I can’t? So, again: What does having a Ph.D. have to do with flying a Cessna? ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Simus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@Don\_Simus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Simus)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/204 "2014-01-22T08:31:01Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > … what the hell do **I** personally have to do with this. Read the words I said: Haven’t you also said that you are Steven Hawking? > [@Jragon](#): > > Why don’t **I** fly a plane? Well, I’m not a PhD, so this conversation has nothing to do with me, but **I** don’t fly a plane because I’m not interested in it. And what do you prefer to flying? Vacuum cleaning? In such case you should explain which properties of your character make you prefer vacuum cleaning to flying. > [@Jragon](#): > > (And even if I were, I probably couldn’t afford the lessons). What about those folks who buy 100 million dollar paintings which they themselves can’t tell from ape work? They obviously have enough money. > [@Jragon](#): > > the next leading factors likely being lack of time to learn And what are they so busy with? > [@Jragon](#): > > and lack of local programs offering lessons. Those are everywhere. > [@Jragon](#): > > “Literally unable to do so” is probably pretty far down on the list, PhD or not. Sure. The difficult thing is to get a PhD. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/205 "2014-01-22T13:31:39Z")
> [@Don\_Simus](#): > > Haven’t you also said that you are Steven Hawking? No, I incorrectly misinterpreted your “you” as a general “you”. As in “what handicap could make it impossible for some random person to fly.” I didn’t think you meant **me** specifically, because there was no reason to drag my personal pilot abilities or lackthereof into the conversation since it was entirely irrelevant. Or at least I assumed it was, because I’ll grant I have no idea what the point of the thread is. Let’s try this again: What is your point? ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/206 "2014-01-22T14:21:35Z")
**Don Simus** , could you please answer one questions? What does it tell us about pilots that Frank Abagnale, by his own account, was able to take control of a commercial jet in midflight without the co-pilot identifying him as a fraud? This is a very simple question with an easy and obvious answer, and yet you keep avoiding it. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/207 "2014-01-22T15:18:29Z")
[ol] [/ol]As our esteemed OP Professor Simkin is being uncharacteristically reticent, I shall attempt to summarize. a) Sociology and PhD’s are bullshit because Frank Abagnale. b) Modern art is bullshit because monkeys. c) Don Simus/Mikhail Simkin is smarter than you because he figured out (a) and (b). d) GOTO (a) ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Simus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@Don\_Simus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Simus)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/208 "2014-01-22T19:59:55Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > No, I incorrectly misinterpreted your “you” as a general “you”. As in “what handicap could make it impossible for some random person to fly.” I didn’t think you meant **me** specifically, because there was no reason to drag my personal pilot abilities or lackthereof into the conversation since it was entirely irrelevant. No, this is exactly what is relevant. So please answer my question. What makes you prefer vacuum cleaning to flying? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/209 "2014-01-22T20:11:12Z")
What is your point? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/210 "2014-01-22T20:23:13Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > What is your point? He’s never going to answer that. The mods should just close this thing down. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/211 "2014-01-22T20:25:44Z")
I reported it on the first page, but it hasn’t been shut down yet. And I think some of the moderators have participated, so inexplicably they’re OK with whatever nonsense is going on here. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/212 "2014-01-22T20:35:03Z")
Having trouble distinguishing an actual discussion from something randomly hammered out by an ape, maybe. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/213 "2014-01-22T20:39:17Z")
I think we’re slowly getting to his point. It appears to be “All your vacuum cleaners are belong to us”. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Simus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@Don\_Simus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Simus)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/214 "2014-01-22T21:05:17Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > **Don Simus** , could you please answer one questions? What does it tell us about pilots that Frank Abagnale, by his own account, was able to take control of a commercial jet in midflight without the co-pilot identifying him as a fraud? This is a very simple question with an easy and obvious answer, and yet you keep avoiding it. I have answered the question several times. When the airplane is set on course you do not need to control it. You do not have to keep your hands on the yoke and even always look ahead. You can change batteries in your handheld GPS, turn back and pick up your bag and take snacks out of it, or take out another aeronautical chart. Of course you need from time to time make small corrections but it takes minutes for deviations to build up. Basically it is easier to fly an airplane up in the air than it is to drive a car. On your first flight your instructor will offer you the controls up in the air. And if he points you some landmark you will be able to bring the airplane over it if you are not a complete lamer. Abagnale just took pilots sit and engaged autopilot. This is all he did. To engage the autopilot is about as difficult as to engage the cruise control in your car. The only difficult thing in flying (in case of no emergencies) is landing. Just try it yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/215 "2014-01-22T21:07:48Z")
Earlier, you said, “So please answer my question.” In return, please answer one from us. What is your point? ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Simus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@Don\_Simus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Simus)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/216 "2014-01-22T21:27:08Z")
> [@dasmoocher](#): > > I think we’re slowly getting to his point. It appears to be “All your vacuum cleaners are belong to us”. The aim of vacuum cleaner metaphor was to demonstrate the absurdity of Dragon’s reply that he is not flying because he is not interested in it. I did not ask him why he is not a recreational dentist, why he is not drilling teeth for fun. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/217 "2014-01-22T21:27:51Z")
Abagnale could have taught himself how to fly. The 18 year old kid in the [news story I posted on the previous page](http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_24596605/self-taught-pilot-accused-joyriding-stolen-plane) did it, and joyrode/joyflew all over the place repeatedly in a stolen Cessna belonging to an Air Force major, taking off and landing it repeatedly. However, the scam Abagnale was running didn’t depend on the ability to fly a plane at all. He didn’t get a job with Pan Am and wasn’t trying to get on their flight schedule to fly jets. He was doing the exact opposite, “flying” under Pan Am’s radar, stowing away in plain sight to fly for free and cashing fake checks. Being able to fly was no more relevant to the scam he was running than being able to drive. So Abagnale could have taught himself to fly, but (1) why would he bother? and (2) what’s your point? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/218 "2014-01-22T21:43:49Z")
> [@Don\_Simus](#): > > The aim of vacuum cleaner metaphor was to demonstrate the absurdity of Dragon’s reply that he is not flying because he is not interested in it. I did not ask him why he is not a recreational dentist, why he is not drilling teeth for fun. What is your point? ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/219 "2014-01-22T22:43:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **Jragon** > Why don’t I fly a plane? Well, I’m not a PhD, so this conversation has nothing to do with me, but I don’t fly a plane because I’m not interested in it. > [@Don\_Simus](#): > > And what do you prefer to flying? Vacuum cleaning? In such case you should explain which properties of your character make you prefer vacuum cleaning to flying. > [@Don\_Simus](#): > > The aim of vacuum cleaner metaphor was to demonstrate the absurdity of Dragon’s reply that he is not flying because he is not interested in it. I did not ask him why he is not a recreational dentist, why he is not drilling teeth for fun. Are you saying it’s absurd that someone may not be interested in flying a plane? I would imagine there are people who are not interested in flying. It seems absurd to think there are not–regardless of whether training is affordable or available. I once took a sight-seeing helicopter ride. A couple was with us and the wife barely opened her eyes because she was afraid of heights. I doubt someone like that would be interested in learning to fly. ETA: What’s your point? ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2014, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154/220 "2014-01-22T23:01:07Z")
> [@Don\_Simus](#): > > The aim of vacuum cleaner metaphor was to demonstrate the absurdity of Dragon’s reply that he is not flying because he is not interested in it. There is nothing in the least absurd about that reply. What is the matter with you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/juvenile-delinquent-taught-at-a-university/678154.md?page=12)