# Kaballah Rabbi says Jews have only themselves to blame for the holocaust **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 11, 2005, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231 "2005-01-11T17:16:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/1 "2005-01-11T17:16:19Z")
I don’t think this guy qualifies as a mensch, I’m also a bit curious as to how Kaballah was supposed to defeat the Axis. [Kabbalah leader’s Holocaust ‘slur’](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/4158287.stm/) > [@](#): > > A senior figure in the controversial Kabbalah Centre - the sect championed by stars including Madonna and Demi Moore - seems likely to spark a storm of protest by saying Jews killed in the Holocaust brought their downfall upon themselves. > > Eliyahu Yardeni, of the London Kabbalah Centre, made the astonishing claim to an undercover reporter investigating high-pressure sales techniques employed by the group, which promotes its own brand of beliefs, part ancient Jewish mysticism and part pseudo-science. > > The probe also revealed how Kabbalah Centre representatives claimed bottles of “healing” spring water sold by the group could help cure cancer - and how they sold a batch to a sufferer for hundreds of pounds. > > Talking about the wartime massacre of the Jews, Mr Yardeni said: “Just to tell you another thing about the six million Jews that were killed in the Holocaust: the question was that the Light was blocked. They didn’t use Kabbalah.” ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/2 "2005-01-11T18:32:59Z")
When an asshole acts like an asshole, that’s not news. I’m wondering why this guy is even trying to teach Kaballah to non-Jews in the first place. Is he even a rabbi? Where’s his smicha from? ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/3 "2005-01-11T19:16:07Z")
Hey, we’re allowed to have our share of idiots too. No one ever said that non-Jews have a monopoly on idiocy… Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/4 "2005-01-11T19:35:11Z")
I remember reading something by Elie Wiesel once in which he was talking about all the Jews in his town (before they were rounded up for the camps) using Kabbala non-stop in an effort to bring the Messiah and/or to stop Hitler. It didn’t work. This Yardeni guy sounds pretty much like any other self-apponted guru, prophet or cult leader. It’s not uncommon for this kind of \*client cult to sell its product by claiming all kinds of ridiculous benefits, taking credit for things it had nothing to do with and blaming bad things on a lack of the product. (\*When I say “client cult,” I am not referring to Kabbala in general but just to this one individual who is trying to co-opt an ancient mystical practice for his own monetary gain). ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/5 "2005-01-11T19:41:17Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > Hey, we’re allowed to have our share of idiots too. So you know my cousins? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/6 "2005-01-11T19:54:29Z")
IANAJ, but… :mad: :mad: :mad: What means of recourse, other than private and public protests, does organized Judaism have in a case like this? Is there any legal procedure akin to defrocking for wayward rabbis? Can his Los Angeles center be delicensed or forcibly shut down by a presiding Jewish organization or governing body? I honestly don’t know what’s worse, his blaming the victims in the Holocaust or his creating a few new ones (by peddling overpriced mineral water as a cure for cancer)… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/7 "2005-01-11T19:58:56Z")
:smack: …his London-based Centre (not L.A.). I should have noticed, by the spelling of “Cent **re** ”. I was thrown by the mention of Hollywood celebs… Does this mean we can call him a stupid git, as well as an idiot? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/8 "2005-01-11T19:59:53Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > So you know my cousins? 🙂 Of course he does, he’s Jewish, isn’t he? I’ve had conversations like this before: Gentile: So, you’re Jewish? Me: Ya, I am a Jew Gentile: I wonder if you know my cousin, his name is Dave and he lives in [insert name of Jew-heavy local town like San Francisco]? Me: [insert smart-ass comment about knowing all of the local Jews] I’m sure that’s not what you meant, but the thought occurred to me and I’m bored… 😛 Sam ---
**Author:** ![EmeraldGrue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dc4da7/32.png) [@EmeraldGrue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmeraldGrue)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/9 "2005-01-11T22:58:29Z")
Oh, he is most definitely _not_ a mensch. But the karmic “if you hadn’t deserved it, you wouldn’t have gotten it” notion is prevalent in New Age movements. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/10 "2005-01-12T10:24:19Z")
> [@astro](#): > > I don’t think this guy qualifies as a mensch, I’m also a bit curious as to how Kaballah was supposed to defeat the Axis. Well, there are two approaches, as **Captain Amazing** said, you can try to bring about the coming of the messiah, who will destroy our enemies. Or you can make a whole bunch of golems. The Kabbalah Learning Centre has been known as a scam and a cult for years now [http://www.rickross.com/groups/kabbalah.html](http://www.rickross.com/groups/kabbalah.html) ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/11 "2005-01-12T10:31:19Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Or you can make a whole bunch of golems. Serious hijack here, I’ve read enough articles on serious Jewish sites which take the Golem of Prague tale seriously, which makes me wonder - were there any serious attempts by rabbinic leaders in 1930s=40s Europe to make golems? They sure would have come in handy then. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/12 "2005-01-12T10:38:30Z")
**FriarTed** I’d be shocked if there weren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/13 "2005-01-12T13:03:17Z")
So how do you all know that drinking the blessed spring water wouldn’t have prevented the Holocaust? Where’s your _proof_??? ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/14 "2005-01-12T13:37:10Z")
A nitpick, here. AIUI, Kabballah is a field or area of study, not simply a cult. And certainly no one center, even in so prestigeous a city as London, can be said to be the head of the study. Not to deny the asshattedness of the dude being quoted, just saying that there’s some more asshattedness on the part of the reporter, too. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/15 "2005-01-12T13:52:39Z")
What is UP with Kaballah anyway? This is just getting crazy. I have the Hebrew word for “compassion” taped to my monitor to remind me to be a nicer person (I put it there a long time ago after a week where I got into two separate spats with coworkers). Last week, my company had an outing that I declined to attend, and one of my (non-Jewish) managers tried to bribe me to come along with an offer to listen to his Kaballah CDs. Me: Whaaaaaaa? Him: You have this Hebrew on your monitor…I thought you’d be interested in Kaballah! Me: I’m not much for Kaballah, actually. Numerology and mysticism doesn’t appeal to me. Him: ABRAHAM believed in Kaballah! Again, whaaaaaaa? If there’s midrash that Abraham had anything to do with Kaballah, maybe someone can enlighten me, because it sure as hell isn’t in the Torah. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/16 "2005-01-12T14:09:22Z")
As far as I’m concerned, this incarnation of “Kabbalah” is nothing more nor less than the latest spiritual fad. It’ll fade away back into obscurity when the next fad comes along. Robin ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/17 "2005-01-12T14:14:02Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > As far as I’m concerned, this incarnation of “Kabbalah” is nothing more nor less than the latest spiritual fad. It’ll fade away back into obscurity when the next fad comes along. > > Robin And not a moment too soon. Of course, whatever replaces it will be even more embarassing, I’m sure. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/18 "2005-01-12T14:36:58Z")
> [@OtakuLoki](#): > > A nitpick, here. > > AIUI, Kabballah is a field or area of study, not simply a cult. And certainly no one center, even in so prestigeous a city as London, can be said to be the head of the study. > > Not to deny the asshattedness of the dude being quoted, just saying that there’s some more asshattedness on the part of the reporter, too. That’s why I only said that the Kaballah Centre is a cult and not Kaballah _per se_. I don’t see where the reporter said that Yardeni was any more than the leader of his own Centre or tried to imply that he or his Centre were at the forefront of Kaballah in general or that this guy was recognized as any sort of Jewish religious leader outside his own business. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/19 "2005-01-12T14:42:16Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I don’t see where the reporter said that Yardeni was any more than the leader of his own Centre or tried to imply that he or his Centre were at the forefront of Kaballah in general or that this guy was recognized as any sort of Jewish religious leader outside his own business. Actually, your own quote in the OP is what was bothering me: > [@](#): > > A senior figure in the controversial Kabbalah Centre - the sect championed by stars including Madonna and Demi Moore - seems likely to spark a storm of protest by saying Jews killed in the Holocaust brought their downfall upon themselves. It seems to me that the reporter is equating the Kabbalah Centre with the whole of Kabballism. Which is bunk, based on the admittedly little reading I’ve done. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/20 "2005-01-12T14:42:40Z")
> [@OtakuLoki](#): > > And not a moment too soon. Of course, whatever replaces it will be even more embarassing, I’m sure. :smack: Yeah, these morons can inflict themselves on the Coptic Christians next. Robin [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231.md?page=2)