# Kaballah Rabbi says Jews have only themselves to blame for the holocaust **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 11, 2005, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231 "2005-01-11T17:16:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/21 "2005-01-12T14:55:16Z")
> [@OtakuLoki](#): > > Actually, your own quote in the OP is what was bothering me: > > It seems to me that the reporter is equating the Kabbalah Centre with the whole of Kabballism. Which is bunk, based on the admittedly little reading I’ve done. Sorry, **astro** and **DtC** , I got mixed up there for a moment. It’s **astro** ’s OP, and not **DtC** ’s. > [@MsRobyn](#): > > Yeah, these morons can inflict themselves on the Coptic Christians next. > > Robin Hmm… Egyptian **and** not known to the mainstream? Even better, the name **Coptic** is taken by some of the Monophysite churches as a slur, so it’s insulting as well. I think we have a winner! :eek: :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/22 "2005-01-12T15:08:25Z")
> [@OtakuLoki](#): > > Sorry, **astro** and **DtC** , I got mixed up there for a moment. It’s **astro** ’s OP, and not **DtC** ’s. > > Hmm… Egyptian **and** not known to the mainstream? > > Even better, the name **Coptic** is taken by some of the Monophysite churches as a slur, so it’s insulting as well. > > I think we have a winner! :eek: :smack: 😃 It can combine a travesty of Christian mysticism with a mis-understanding of Gnosticism and an interest in fake Egyptology for maximum fad appeal. Announce its advent when the King Tut exhibit is touring. Make copious references to the Nag Hammadi texts, for an aura of spurious scholarship. Damn, I think we are on to something … 😛 ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/23 "2005-01-12T15:16:59Z")
[QUOTE=MalthusAnnounce its advent when the King Tut exhibit is touring. Make copious references to the Nag Hammadi texts, for an aura of spurious scholarship. Damn, I think we are on to something … :p[/QUOTE] Maybe we should make it a cooperative effort between us and **fontor** ’s **[Lev](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=294280)**[sup]tm[/sup]? Get all them sucke- _ahem_ **seekers** coming to our doors. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/24 "2005-01-12T15:22:54Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > 😃 > > It can combine a travesty of Christian mysticism with a mis-understanding of Gnosticism and an interest in fake Egyptology for maximum fad appeal. > > Announce its advent when the King Tut exhibit is touring. Make copious references to the Nag Hammadi texts, for an aura of spurious scholarship. > > Damn, I think we are on to something … 😛 Maybe you’ve found the way to make The Dope free again. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/25 "2005-01-12T15:56:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Even better, the name Coptic is taken by some of the Monophysite churches as a slur, so it’s insulting as well. Since when? Every Coptic Christian I’ve known has cheerfully referred to themselves as Coptic. It’s “monophysite” they find objectionable. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/26 "2005-01-12T16:27:56Z")
> [@yBeayf](#): > > Since when? Every Coptic Christian I’ve known has cheerfully referred to themselves as Coptic. It’s “monophysite” they find objectionable. I did some research a few years back on the Ethiopian church, which is one of those churches with a lineage going back to the Coptic church, and the few US congregations I found were very clear on their dislike of the word Coptic. I don’t doubt that there are other churches who prefer the term - from my research I got the impression that there is less conformity in churches of this tradition than there is any other non-Protestant sect. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/27 "2005-01-12T16:52:20Z")
> [@](#): > > I did some research a few years back on the Ethiopian church, which is one of those churches with a lineage going back to the Coptic church, and the few US congregations I found were very clear on their dislike of the word Coptic. Ah! That would be because the Ethiopians aren’t Copts, but Ethiopians – the Copts are an ethnic group. The Ethiopians have been independant from the Coptic Church since 1965. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/28 "2005-01-12T17:00:41Z")
> [@yBeayf](#): > > Ah! That would be because the Ethiopians aren’t Copts, but Ethiopians – the Copts are an ethnic group. The Ethiopians have been independant from the Coptic Church since 1965. But the traditions have become associated as a rite of their own, outside of the ethnic origin of the term. Certainly Google gives a number of hits for Ethiopian Coptic churches in the US, which otherwise would be an oxymoron. 😉 Besides, we’re talking about a mystical neo-Coptic thingy to replace the current focus on Kabbalism: I’m sure that all stripes of legitimate Coptic-tradition churches would raise Hell at that, no matter what. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/29 "2005-01-12T17:25:57Z")
> [@EmeraldGrue](#): > > Oh, he is most definitely _not_ a mensch. > But the karmic “if you hadn’t deserved it, you wouldn’t have gotten it” notion is prevalent in New Age movements. That’s true. New age movements will occaisionaly turn from stupid to nasty very quickly. I’ve heard new age “healers” blame people for their cancer too. And not because of smoking or nutrition, though that would be obnoxious in itself, but because they had somehow wished cancer on themselves by not following the tenet’s of the particular healer’s philosophy. (Sorry, no cite. It was on a radio show I heard a while ago.) ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/30 "2005-01-12T18:11:45Z")
> [@](#): > > But the traditions have become associated as a rite of their own, outside of the ethnic origin of the term. Certainly Google gives a number of hits for Ethiopian Coptic churches in the US, which otherwise would be an oxymoron. Yes, but the Ethiopians don’t use the Coptic rite, they use the Ethiopian rite. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/31 "2005-01-12T18:46:20Z")
> [@OtakuLoki](#): > > > [@Malthus](#): > > > > Announce its advent when the King Tut exhibit is touring. Make copious references to the Nag Hammadi texts, for an aura of spurious scholarship. > > > > Damn, I think we are on to something … 😛 > > Maybe we should make it a cooperative effort between us and **fontor** ’s **[Lev](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=294280)**[sup]tm[/sup]? Get all them sucke- _ahem_ **seekers** coming to our doors. 😃 In between the King Tut masks and the levitation, it should appeal to all … Now go forth and prostheletize, my brothers and sisters! And don’t forget our easy payment plan for time-share condos in Heaven! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/32 "2005-01-12T18:51:21Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > Maybe you’ve found the way to make The Dope free again. 😃 Sorry, I’m keeping it all myself. Who needs a community of free-thinkers, when I can have Hollywood Celebs parroting my every thought (however moronic) and telling me I’m a genius? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/33 "2005-01-13T00:42:48Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > What is UP with Kaballah anyway? This is just getting crazy. I don’t understand it. I was always taught that it was dangerous territory for the unprepared, as illustrated by the example in the Talmud (Hagigah 14b) where four entered the “orchard” and only one (Rabbi Akiva) left unscathed. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/34 "2005-01-13T02:04:11Z")
I love Madonna. I have ever since I was four years old. Her songs are like old friends. And I have **never** been more ashamed of her than I am right now. Is she _retarded_? I am _this close_ to running down the street rending my clothes, going into the park behind my house, digging a hole, jumping inside and pulling it in after me. I wish Rabbi Berg would at least make a statement about this. I am not familiar enough with Special K to know exactly who Yardeni is, but AFAIK if it ain’t Berg, it ain’t boss, as they say. Not to defend this Band of Idiots, **but** unless we know exactly who Yardeni is, we can’t confirm how much his statements reflect the official teachings of the KC. It would be easy to go looking for dirt at a Kabballah seminar, interview the grunt at the juice table, and source the quote from “Bliddy McBlah, of the Kabballah Centre”. There are yahoos everywhere. If you wanted to know about Catholic theology, would you interview a Priest or the organist? ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/35 "2005-01-13T02:13:28Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > IIt would be easy to go looking for dirt at a Kabballah seminar, interview the grunt at the juice table, and source the quote from “Bliddy McBlah, of the Kabballah Centre”. There are yahoos everywhere. If you wanted to know about Catholic theology, would you interview a Priest or the organist? Re-reading, I realized that this could be misunderstood, and I want to clarify, because I think this is important. I do not equate the teachings of the Kabballah Centre with actual, real Kabballah, which is a field of study only open to Jewish men of a certain age who have parented one male and one female child. Most of the time, I call what Berg peddles “Special K” to differentiate it from authentic Kabballah study. Please be nice to me, I am humiliated enough already ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/36 "2005-01-13T03:20:08Z")
Whole thing sounds pretty meshuguna to me. ---
**Author:** ![Snakey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@Snakey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snakey)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/37 "2005-01-13T04:20:32Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > Again, whaaaaaaa? If there’s midrash that Abraham had anything to do with Kaballah, maybe someone can enlighten me, because it sure as hell isn’t in the Torah. Actually, there is a book that it attributed to Avraham Avinu. Its called Sefer Yetzirah. ;j ---
**Author:** ![Snakey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@Snakey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snakey)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231/38 "2005-01-13T04:31:57Z")
Sorry, hit the submit post button too quick ( Im new at this). I was going to add that I heard a tape once by this Chabad “Rabbi” who shall remain nameless, who spoke at a survivor conference in Melbourne Australia. He said and I quote " Hitler was just a messenger of G-d, and that if I was in Auschwitz, I would have only eaten kosher!" Im sure the many Rabbis and learned people, and well as the 1.5 million children murdered by the Nazis will take comfort knowing this, as well as the point of knowing that the camp inmates actually had a kosher menu choice!!! With friends like this… :wally [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kaballah-rabbi-says-jews-have-only-themselves-to-blame-for-the-holocaust/284231.md?page=1)