# Kamala Harris' recent comments on guns **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** kamala-harris\ **Created:** [September 22, 2024, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harris-recent-comments-on-guns/1007591 "2024-09-22T19:07:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2024, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harris-recent-comments-on-guns/1007591/121 "2024-09-24T21:17:43Z")
I’m sorry if this is a bit too far afield, but I must share a story. The County Sheriff was asleep one night. A drunk guy tried to get into his house, thinking it was his or his friends. (lot’s of air BnB BS up here) The Sheriff told him he was wrong. Not your house. The guy later, tried to climb the backyard fence to get into the Sheriffs house. The Sheriff called 911, and I’m sure got quick response from HIS deputies. I don’t have that option. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harris-recent-comments-on-guns/1007591/122 "2024-09-25T00:19:51Z")
To me they have important and very different meanings. Obviously your mileage varies. @DrDeth indeed the biggest contributor to gun associated deaths in children are homicides in Black teens. Yes I consider teen agers to still be children. And there is no question that gang violence using knives and chains would have fewer deaths. In younger children after infancy [unintentional death](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/wr/mm7250a1.htm) is the leading cause and guns play a major. Most often the guns that cause the death were not locked up and were loaded. Nightstands, closets, accessible for that feared home invasion. We’ve had a death in our practice just last year of a brother showing the gun to his little brother when it went off and killed the little brother. It has not happened often but little that kills kids does. I’ve never had a child in my practice killed by a home invader. One parent who murdered their child. [Suicide rates](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db471.htm) in children are increasing faster than homicide rates and gun availability increases risk of suicide completion substantially. I don’t particularly care if you consider it number one or not, if you want instead to consider these as separate causes, unintentional death (accidents); homicide, and suicide, the fact is that all are dramatically amplified by the ready accessibility to guns, by both legal and illegal means, and in the legal category primarily driven by those who do not take the _responsibility_ of ownership _seriously_ enough. I have little interest in getting into a gun control debate. Wasted enough time there in the last. But I think most of us can agree that promoting safe storage and treating guns as a serious object to be used against a fellow human only when absolutely required. Whatever we think about the political expediency of Harris’s statement. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harris-recent-comments-on-guns/1007591/123 "2024-09-25T01:08:33Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > To me they have important and very different meanings. Obviously your mileage varies. What does saying you keep a gun at home for self-defense even mean if not that you intend to use it to shoot an intruder? What else are you gonna do? Throw it at them? Force them to listen to you recite Vogon poetry? Pull off some sort of Bugs Bunny-esque trick shot that ricochets off a frying pan and nips their suspenders so their pants fall down? Having a gun that you don’t intend to use is an empty threat. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harris-recent-comments-on-guns/1007591/124 "2024-09-25T01:33:21Z")
Honestly I’ve done my best to explain it. If I have been unsuccessful then there is no value in continuing to repeat myself. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harris-recent-comments-on-guns/1007591/125 "2024-09-25T01:34:41Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > In younger children after infancy [unintentional death](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/wr/mm7250a1.htm) is the leading cause and guns play a major. Sure. But they are by no means the #1 cause. [https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/152/3/e2023061296/193711/Trends-and-Disparities-in-Firearm-Deaths-Among?autologincheck=redirected](https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/152/3/e2023061296/193711/Trends-and-Disparities-in-Firearm-Deaths-Among?autologincheck=redirected) _In 2021, among children who died by firearms, 84.8% were male, 49.9% were Black, 82.6% were aged 15 to 19 years, and 64.3% died by homicide._ If you scroll down to the table, you can see, it isnt until the 15-19 age (most studies include 19yo also) where the number of gun deaths takes off. There were 4,156 deaths among children 1-4, 91 were by guns (all accidents from what i can see), 6,239 age 5-14, of which 367 were by gun. Now, sure, that 367 is 367 too many. But to just blithely say “the number one cause of child deaths is by gun!” is lying by statistics. It is not until 15-19 where the numbers jump way up, and we can blame guns or the “war Against drugs” or Racism or poverty- any of those can be blamed just as well as any other. > **[FastStats](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/child-health.htm)** > > FastStats is an official application from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) and puts access to topic-specific statistics at your fingertips. > [@DSeid](#): > > But I think most of us can agree that promoting safe storage and treating guns as a serious object to be used against a fellow human only when absolutely required. And on that we completely agree. If you have a gun in the house and you have kids, _the gun must be securely locked up_- I am talking a safe here, something solid. > [@Smapti](#): > > What does saying you keep a gun at home for self-defense even mean if not that you intend to use it to shoot an intruder? Most of us hope to NOT shoot the intruder , and simple scare him off. So, we I_ntend_ to use the gun as a threat if possible, but yes, deadly force is the last resort. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harris-recent-comments-on-guns/1007591/126 "2024-09-25T01:40:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Sure. But they are by no means the #1 cause Like I said > [@DSeid](#): > > don’t particularly care if you consider it number one or not Separate out the causes of MVA associated deaths to alcohol related, not car per se, and so on if you want. Cut it how you like. For kids guns accessibility is a major contributing and preventable factor to deaths. First, fifth, don’t personally care. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harris-recent-comments-on-guns/1007591/127 "2024-09-25T01:49:36Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Separate out the causes of MVA associated deaths to alcohol related, not car per se, and so on if you want. Cut it how you like. For kids guns accessibility is a major contributing and preventable factor to deaths. We are in agreement, but somehow oddly, the same gangbangers with illegal 9mm handguns that do most of the youth killing do not seem to care about home gun safety. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harris-recent-comments-on-guns/1007591/128 "2024-09-25T01:56:53Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Most of us hope to NOT shoot the intruder , and simple scare him off. So, we I_ntend_ to use the gun as a threat if possible, but yes, deadly force is the last resort. But you still have the intent to shoot if necessary, as opposed to some sort of nebulous having it but not intending to use it. “Stop or I won’t shoot” isn’t much of a threat. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harris-recent-comments-on-guns/1007591/129 "2024-09-25T01:58:34Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > What does saying you keep a gun at home for self-defense even mean if not that you intend to use it to shoot an intruder? What else are you gonna do? I think how you phrase it shows how you intend to use it. To me, the statement “I have a gun to shoot an intruder” sounds like an offensive statement. I infer that the homeowner would actively go looking for the intruder with the intent to shoot them. The statement “I have a gun to protect myself” sounds more defensive. I infer that the homeowner would shoot the intruder only if there was no other option. The homeowner in this case might try to get out of the house, hide, or something like that. They’d shoot the intruder if they or one of the other residents was in mortal danger from the intruder. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harris-recent-comments-on-guns/1007591/130 "2024-09-25T02:00:09Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > But you still have the intent to shoot if necessary Look- the goal posts have moved again, now they are up in the stands! 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harris-recent-comments-on-guns/1007591/131 "2024-09-25T02:01:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > the goal posts have moved again, now they are up in the stands! Eh? I think you and I are on the same side of this discussion. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harris-recent-comments-on-guns/1007591/132 "2024-09-25T02:09:36Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > The statement “I have a gun to protect myself” sounds more defensive. I infer that the homeowner would shoot the intruder only if there was no other option. The homeowner in this case might try to get out of the house, hide, or something like that. They’d shoot the intruder if they or one of the other residents was in mortal danger from the intruder. “If you’re explaining, you’re losing”, the saying goes. If you say that if faced with a home invasion you will shoot the intruder, you’d expect most people will understand the “…if I just have to” part is implicit. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harris-recent-comments-on-guns/1007591/133 "2024-09-25T02:11:48Z")
I don’t know, but Kamala may have grown up with firearms in the home for protection. Oakland was a nasty dangerous place with outright slums when Kamala was a child. Oakland was also the home to the black panthers. Who took the 2nd amendment seriously, and of course Govenor Reagan lost his shit when black men with long guns showed up in the state capital in the late 1960’s. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harris-recent-comments-on-guns/1007591/134 "2024-09-25T02:14:01Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Up to 14 years it is accidents. But after than, we get into young men, aged 15-17, in gangs, having shootouts and drive bys over drugs. So, yeah, guns kill a LOT of young men, mostly black, in the ghettos, due to gangs and drugs. Thus you can say _guns_ are the leading cause of death or you could just as easily say “gangs” or the failed “war on drugs” (or just “drugs”) or even “poverty in the ghetto”. Way, way too many young men die from this. And suicide - often by gun is there also. Depression among teens is not uncommon. And with less easy access to guns there would be fewer such deaths. I’m not sure how this helps your case, unless teenage deaths are somehow OK. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harris-recent-comments-on-guns/1007591/135 "2024-09-25T02:25:00Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > What does saying you keep a gun at home for self-defense even mean if not that you intend to use it to shoot an intruder? What else are you gonna do? Run away (much smarter). Or _they_ run away (probably because they weren’t looking to fight in the first place, gun or not). Or die when they shoot first. The idea that there’s some epidemic of thugs breaking into people’s homes with the intent to attack them is a right wing fantasy, and one with heavy racist overtones. Most burglars will run as soon as they realize somebody’s there, gun or not. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harris-recent-comments-on-guns/1007591/136 "2024-09-25T02:34:59Z")
Moderating: > [@DrDeth](#): > > I guess we are not gonna get away from the “guns are the leading cause of death for children” statistical lie- “three kinds of lies- lies, Damn lies and Statistics”. > [@DSeid](#): > > @DrDeth indeed the biggest contributor to gun associated deaths in children are homicides in Black teens. Yes I consider teen agers to still be children. And there is no question that gang violence using knives and chains would have fewer deaths. > [@Smapti](#): > > What does saying you keep a gun at home for self-defense even mean if not that you intend to use it to shoot an intruder? What else are you gonna do? Throw it at them? Force them to listen to you recite Vogon poetry? Pull off some sort of Bugs Bunny-esque trick shot that ricochets off a frying pan and nips their suspenders so their pants fall down? > [@DrDeth](#): > > Sure. But they are by no means the #1 cause. > [@DSeid](#): > > Separate out the causes of MVA associated deaths to alcohol related, not car per se, and so on if you want. Cut it how you like. For kids guns accessibility is a major contributing and preventable factor to deaths. First, fifth, don’t personally care. > [@DrDeth](#): > > We are in agreement, but somehow oddly, the same gangbangers with illegal 9mm handguns that do most of the youth killing do not seem to care about home gun safety. > [@Smapti](#): > > But you still have the intent to shoot if necessary, as opposed to some sort of nebulous having it but not intending to use it. “Stop or I won’t shoot” isn’t much of a threat. > [@filmore](#): > > I think how you phrase it shows how you intend to use it. To me, the statement “I have a gun to shoot an intruder” sounds like an offensive statement. I infer that the homeowner would actively go looking for the intruder with the intent to shoot them. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Look- the goal posts have moved again, now they are up in the stands! 🙄 > [@Smapti](#): > > Eh? I think you and I are on the same side of this discussion. > [@JRDelirious](#): > > “If you’re explaining, you’re losing”, the saying goes. If you say that if faced with a home invasion you will shoot the intruder, you’d expect most people will understand the “…if I just have to” part is implicit. > [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > And with less easy access to guns there would be fewer such deaths. I’m not sure how this helps your case, unless teenage deaths are somehow OK. Yet again, the discussion has devolved into a generic gun debate and that is not the purpose of this thread. The purpose of this thread is to discuss Kamala Harris’s specific comments about guns and their impact on the upcoming election. @DrDeth, you are always, always in the middle of these hijacks and have been mod noted numerous times for doing this. I am issuing you a formal warning in the hope that you will understand that we are serious about you not turning every single gun discussion into a gun control debate. I am also banning you from this thread. To the rest of those quoted in this note, if you’re not discussing the issue as stated in the OP, then you have nothing to contribute to this particular thread. Keep this in mind as you make further posts in the thread. If you wish to carry on a gun control debate or a general discussion about guns, do it in one of the many other gun threads or start a new one. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harris-recent-comments-on-guns/1007591/137 "2024-09-25T02:45:20Z")
At any rate, to sum up my position on the issue: Harris saying what she did about guns was politically a good move, and otherwise doesn’t _really_ matter to anyone not directly associating with her since she’s both just one person and protected by the Secret Service to boot. She could have a whole armory or no gun at all, what matters _politically_ is what she _said;_ which is well in line with mainstream American opinion. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harris-recent-comments-on-guns/1007591/138 "2024-09-25T03:29:22Z")
So to keep specific to the issues of the OP: > [@griffin1977](#): > > So I do actually have a problem with that attitude towards gun ownership Me too. For all the reasons that were in the discussion that went astray. > [@griffin1977](#): > > if she can say it believably, then she should say it “Should” I am not positive about but it can potentially be effective as part of an outreach to groups she may weak with. Key is the if she can say it believably. > [@griffin1977](#): > > Whether this is cynical pandering or a deeply held belief is irrelevant. Whether it is _perceived_ as one or the other is, however, extremely relevant. And reality makes perception easier to achieve. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harris-recent-comments-on-guns/1007591/139 "2024-09-25T15:15:48Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > In the valley where I live, I would be VERY surprised if every household did not have 2-5 guns. I live in the boonies in western Pennsylvania in Armstrong County. Somebody would be a fool to break into a house here. > Armstrong County ranks fourth in the nation in the percentage of homes that report gun ownership, according to a recent ranking from [City-data.com](http://City-data.com). Nearly **58 percent** of homes report gun ownership in the county, according to the ranking, which was compiled using federal census data. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2024, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harris-recent-comments-on-guns/1007591/140 "2024-09-25T15:34:14Z")
Part of the issue I suppose is that, as seen in this very thread, there are those who will refuse to take her expression as a bona fide one and not something done purely for strategic campaign purposes, depending on where they are coming from. IMO many of those reacting negatively will be the ones who never intended to vote for her anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harris-recent-comments-on-guns/1007591.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harris-recent-comments-on-guns/1007591.md?page=8)