# Kamala Harris's choice of Tim Walz as VP **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** kamala-harris\ **Created:** [August 6, 2024, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harriss-choice-of-tim-walz-as-vp/1005352 "2024-08-06T21:19:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harriss-choice-of-tim-walz-as-vp/1005352/81 "2024-08-07T04:05:43Z")
Dad vibes, political experience, _and_ football coach. I imagine that that last one will resonate with a lot of Americans, even those who aren’t necessarily Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harriss-choice-of-tim-walz-as-vp/1005352/82 "2024-08-07T04:30:45Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I really hope they don’t hype his military experience. It’s already being turned against him in a way I’m having a hard time disagreeing with. He voluntarily joined the National Guard and continued to serve during wartime. He honorably served out his enlistment contract. And then some. He then used his earned GI Bill benefits to go to college. He gets disparaged for “only” giving up a few weeks or months out of any given year, for _twenty years of his life_ to volunteer when very few do? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harriss-choice-of-tim-walz-as-vp/1005352/83 "2024-08-07T04:34:22Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I really hope they don’t hype his military experience. It’s already being turned against him in a way I’m having a hard time disagreeing with. I’ve not seen this in my googling. Could you point me to it, please? My Google abilities are not always stellar. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harriss-choice-of-tim-walz-as-vp/1005352/84 "2024-08-07T04:47:12Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > I really hope they don’t hype his military experience. It’s already being turned against him in a way I’m having a hard time disagreeing with. > > He voluntarily joined the National Guard and continued to serve during wartime. He honorably served out his enlistment contract. And then some. He then used his earned GI Bill benefits to go to college. He gets disparaged for “only” giving up a few weeks or months out of any given year, for _twenty years of his life_ to volunteer when very few do? He is getting disparaged because he rose all the way to the highest enlisted rank where he was the top enlisted soldier in his battalion but he left his unit and retired immediately after they got orders to deploy to Iraq. Leaving a hole at the top of their leadership the had to be hastily filled by someone else. He’s being disparaged because he calls himself a retired CSM despite the fact that it was a conditional promotion and he didn’t meet the conditions. He left before the promotion became permanent and retired as a master sergeant. I spent 4 years of my life on active duty and another 23 years in the guard. You don’t have to tell me about what is sacrificed. The problem is that also gives me insight into the culture. There is a long standing stereotype of the senior NCO or officer who likes staying in for the extra pay and benefits, who loves the good ol boy network and beers at the end of drill but when they have to put it on the line and actually go into harms way they chicken out. I’ve seen it many times. A CSM leaving his battalion on the eve of their deployment is a very bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harriss-choice-of-tim-walz-as-vp/1005352/85 "2024-08-07T04:53:44Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > I really hope they don’t hype his military experience. It’s already being turned against him in a way I’m having a hard time disagreeing with. > > I’ve not seen this in my googling. Could you point me to it, please? My Google abilities are not always stellar. Here is an article from the New York Post. Obviously not an unbiased source. It’s about information posted on social media in 2018 when he ran for governor. Despite the source of the cite and the obvious axe to grind from the original source, I haven’t found anything to dispute the underlying facts and dates. > **[Exclusive | Tim Walz a ‘coward’ and ‘traitor’ for retiring from military...](https://nypost.com/2024/08/06/us-news/veep-pick-tim-walz-is-a-traitor-to-national-guard-source/)** > > “When your country calls, you are supposed to run into battle — not the other way,” Thomas Behrends told The Post of Tim Walz. “He ran away.” ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harriss-choice-of-tim-walz-as-vp/1005352/86 "2024-08-07T04:59:25Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Here is an article from the New York Post. Obviously not an unbiased source. It’s about information posted on social media in 2018 when he ran for governor. Despite the source of the cite and the obvious axe to grind from the original source, I haven’t found anything to dispute the underlying facts and dates. I followed a link from Walz’s Wikipedia page about this (from 2018), and found an archived article. In short, the Minnesota National Guard says that it’s kosher that Walz says that he served as a CSM. > [@](#): > > Being all-knowing, I recognize that most civilians don’t know the difference between a command sergeant major and first sergeant. But military people tend to be particular about such matters. Having once been a lowly private myself, I know how scary command sergeant majors can be. It is a lofty enlisted rank in the Army, second only to Sergeant Major of the Army. > > I turned to the Minnesota National Guard to resolve the question. When a person is promoted to command sergeant major, the promotion is considered conditional until the solider completes U.S. Army Sergeant Major Academy. Another clause stipulates that the solider will hold the position for two years after graduation. > > Walz retired as a command sergeant major, but his rank was later changed to Master Sergeant, one rank below, because he did not complete the requirements to hold the rank into retirement, according to documents provided by the Minnesota Army National Guard. Consequently, Walz’s retirement benefits are those of a master sergeant, not a command sergeant major. > > Even so, it is OK for Walz to cite his CSM rank in his biography and campaign materials because he, in fact, served in that rank, according to Master Sgt. Blair Heusdens of the Minnesota National Guard Public Affairs Office. > > “In his case, Tim Walz served as a Command Sergeant Major in the Minnesota National Guard, and it was the highest and last rank that he held in our organization,” Heusdens said. “It is correct for him to say that he served as a command sergeant major.” > **[Answer Man: Is Walz's rank rank?](https://web.archive.org/web/20180828195219/https://www.postbulletin.com/news/answer_man/answer-man-is-walz-s-rank-rank/article_ce14f41a-a63c-11e8-a3d8-4f3d71d07f09.html)** > > Dear Answer Man: I know your expertise extends far and wide, but what about matters pertaining to the military? U.S. Rep. Tim Walz, the DFL nominee for governor, claims to ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harriss-choice-of-tim-walz-as-vp/1005352/87 "2024-08-07T05:01:22Z")
Just watched that whole video. It gave me hope and, as much as I hate to admit it (because I identify as grumpy, gruff, and non-emotional, with my soft heart DEEPLY hidden) it kinda brought tears to my eyes in spots. “Joy” “Neighbors” “Forward not back” These are all beautiful sentiments. I’d wear a T-shirt and plaster on a bumper sticker with any or all of them. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harriss-choice-of-tim-walz-as-vp/1005352/88 "2024-08-07T05:07:47Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > Here is an article from the New York Post. Obviously not an unbiased source. It’s about information posted on social media in 2018 when he ran for governor. Despite the source of the cite and the obvious axe to grind from the original source, I haven’t found anything to dispute the underlying facts and dates. > > I followed a link from Walz’s Wikipedia page about this (from 2018), and found an archived article: > > > [@](#): > > > > Being all-knowing, I recognize that most civilians don’t know the difference between a command sergeant major and first sergeant. But military people tend to be particular about such matters. Having once been a lowly private myself, I know how scary command sergeant majors can be. It is a lofty enlisted rank in the Army, second only to Sergeant Major of the Army. > > > > I turned to the Minnesota National Guard to resolve the question. When a person is promoted to command sergeant major, the promotion is considered conditional until the solider completes U.S. Army Sergeant Major Academy. Another clause stipulates that the solider will hold the position for two years after graduation. > > > > Walz retired as a command sergeant major, but his rank was later changed to Master Sergeant, one rank below, because he did not complete the requirements to hold the rank into retirement, according to documents provided by the Minnesota Army National Guard. Consequently, Walz’s retirement benefits are those of a master sergeant, not a command sergeant major. > > > > Even so, it is OK for Walz to cite his CSM rank in his biography and campaign materials because he, in fact, served in that rank, according to Master Sgt. Blair Heusdens of the Minnesota National Guard Public Affairs Office. > > > > “In his case, Tim Walz served as a Command Sergeant Major in the Minnesota National Guard, and it was the highest and last rank that he held in our organization,” Heusdens said. “It is correct for him to say that he served as a command sergeant major.” > > [Answer Man: Is Walz's rank rank?](https://web.archive.org/web/20180828195219/https://www.postbulletin.com/news/answer_man/answer-man-is-walz-s-rank-rank/article_ce14f41a-a63c-11e8-a3d8-4f3d71d07f09.html) Technically right is the best kind of right. “Served as” sure. “Retired as” or “Retired CSM” no way. He retired as a MSG. But that’s not close to being as important as leaving his unit as they were preparing to go to war. That’s why I’m seeing tons of vets online saying fuck this guy. They don’t care what it says on his retired ID card. They care that he abandoned his unit. Would they vote for the ticket anyway? Probably not. But my point is citing his military record is not going to have the effect some think it will. Especially as a counter to Vance who did deploy. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harriss-choice-of-tim-walz-as-vp/1005352/89 "2024-08-07T05:24:07Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > He is getting disparaged because he rose all the way to the highest enlisted rank where he was the top enlisted soldier in his battalion but he left his unit and retired immediately after they got orders to deploy to Iraq. FWIW, since it seems like the Republican Party’s anointed is now trying to pretend Iraq was somehow Biden’s (?) Folly, maybe declining to go to Iraq—if that was in fact Walz’s reason for leaving the Guard—should be considered a positive among voters of all stripes? See, for example: > **[Vance years ago expressed support for Iraq War, despite current criticism](https://abcnews.go.com/US/vance-years-ago-expressed-support-iraq-war-despite/story?id=112204761)** > > Trump running mate JD Vance has criticized President Joe Biden's support of the Iraq War, but Vance himself previously expressed support for it. But, yeah, no. Not gonna worry too much about what the NY Post says. I appreciate you’re citing it as evidence of what is being said and not necessarily what is true (although you have indicated you are somewhat accepting of the premise yourself), but still… Personally, as someone who volunteered to go to Iraq, I wish I hadn’t. It was an immoral war, and it speaks to a flaw in my character that I not only went, but actually wanted to go. All that to say, having spent _only_ 14 years in the military myself (but _all of it_ active duty), I’m just fine as an American with a vote seeing Walz point to his service which happily _did not_ involve serving in an unjust war. Spend 20+ years helping your neighbors deal with natural disasters, then pull the chord and get out before occupying someone else’s country? Hell yes, I approve. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harriss-choice-of-tim-walz-as-vp/1005352/90 "2024-08-07T05:35:49Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > He is getting disparaged because he rose all the way to the highest enlisted rank where he was the top enlisted soldier in his battalion but he left his unit and retired immediately after they got orders to deploy to Iraq. > > FWIW, since it seems like the Republican Party’s anointed is now trying to pretend Iraq was somehow Biden’s (?) Folly, maybe declining to go to Iraq—if that was in fact Walz’s reason for leaving the Guard—should be considered a positive among voters of all stripes? See, for example: > > [Vance years ago expressed support for Iraq War, despite current criticism - ABC News](https://abcnews.go.com/US/vance-years-ago-expressed-support-iraq-war-despite/story?id=112204761) > > But, yeah, no. Not gonna worry too much about what the NY Post says. I appreciate you’re citing it as evidence of what is being said and not necessarily what is true (although you have indicated you are somewhat accepting of the premise yourself), but still… > > Personally, as someone who volunteered to go to Iraq, I wish I hadn’t. It was an immoral war, and it speaks to a flaw in my character that I not only went, but actually wanted to go. > > All that to say, having spent _only_ 14 years in the military myself (but _all of it_ active duty), I’m just fine as an American with a vote seeing Walz point to his service which happily _did not_ involve serving in an unjust war. Spend 20+ years helping your neighbors deal with natural disasters, then pull the chord and get out before occupying someone else’s country? Hell yes, I approve. Good for you. I don’t. As the Battalion CSM you are the daddy of the soldiers in the unit. You don’t abandon them when things get dicey. You certainly don’t do it for personal gain. He didn’t take a stand against the war. He left to concentrate on his campaign for Congress. The casualties in his battalion didn’t get that chance. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harriss-choice-of-tim-walz-as-vp/1005352/91 "2024-08-07T05:37:28Z")
No one should participate in an immoral war just because everyone else is doing it. Full stop. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harriss-choice-of-tim-walz-as-vp/1005352/92 "2024-08-07T05:51:10Z")
I was moved more than I thought I would be too. Something nice about hope rather than the usual hate and it came across as genuine. I hope it works. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harriss-choice-of-tim-walz-as-vp/1005352/93 "2024-08-07T06:01:06Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > No one should participate in an immoral war just because everyone else is doing it. Theirs not to make reply, Theirs not to reason why, Theirs but to do and die. Into the valley of Death     Rode the six hundred. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harriss-choice-of-tim-walz-as-vp/1005352/94 "2024-08-07T06:16:12Z")
I watched the rally live on CNN. It seemed to me they were pushing his teaching from a family of teachers a lot more. I don’t think the military service was stressed much, and I don’t think it will hurt, especially in contrast to draft dodging rich-boy Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harriss-choice-of-tim-walz-as-vp/1005352/95 "2024-08-07T06:16:48Z")
Ha! This is a nice self-own: > **[J.D. Vance’s Backdrop Makes It Look Like He’s Campaigning for ‘Kamala’](https://www.thedailybeast.com/jd-vances-backdrop-makes-it-look-like-hes-campaigning-for-kamala?ref=home)** > > The unfortunate signage gaffe came on the same day Harris announced her VP pick. > Well that’s confusing. > > [J.D. Vance](https://www.thedailybeast.com/keyword/jd-vance) delivered a rally speech Tuesday in [Pennsylvania](https://www.thedailybeast.com/keyword/pennsylvania) with a backdrop that made it appear he was campaigning for his arch nemesis, Kamala Harris. > > The unfortunate signage appeared to stem from the event’s advance team not accounting for its crowd blocking half of a gigantic poster that sat directly behind Vance, which appeared to read in full, “KAMALA CHAOS.” > > For those watching on Fox News and other broadcasts, however, the only words clearly visible—in white text on a blue background, in all caps—was simply “Kamala.” ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harriss-choice-of-tim-walz-as-vp/1005352/96 "2024-08-07T06:30:39Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > I watched the rally live on CNN. It seemed to me they were pushing his teaching from a family of teachers a lot more. > > I don’t think the military service was stressed much, and I don’t think it will hurt, especially in contrast to draft dodging rich-boy Trump. I watched the rally too, and the military experience was mentioned, but not played up as much as the teaching social studies, and coaching football. Nothing wrong with military experience, but I think the “teaching and coaching high schoolers” will resonate with a lot more Americans nowadays. Especially if he coached football, the quintessential American sport (and I say that as a Canadian Football League fan). ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harriss-choice-of-tim-walz-as-vp/1005352/97 "2024-08-07T06:48:00Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > He didn’t take a stand against the war. Was he in a position to do so? ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harriss-choice-of-tim-walz-as-vp/1005352/98 "2024-08-07T07:12:09Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/ez19iQMirzE/maxresdefault.jpg "5 Minutes and 26 Seconds of Tim Walz Being AWESOME") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez19iQMirzE) Just a few clips. He definitely has that Dad energy. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harriss-choice-of-tim-walz-as-vp/1005352/99 "2024-08-07T07:41:31Z")
Those are indeed fantastic clips, thanks for posting! Personally, in the space of about 18 hours I’ve gone from thinking “Walz is a great choice!” to a sort of ebullient “This man is an incredible treasure!”. Much of that came from watching videos of the campaign event in Philly. Let me repeat, in part, something I said in the original thread: > Walz’s genial good nature and progressivism seems to highlight more than ever, in very stark terms, the difference between Team Harris and Team Trump, essentially the difference between competence and compassion versus ignorance and pure evil. It’s astounding to me that Americans have to think about what choice they should make. America is truly at a crossroads. Failing to elect Harris-Walz would not only be a missed opportunity of epic, historic proportions, but the Trump ticket would surely send the nation down the path of darkness. This is literally an election of historic proportions like no other in our lifetimes. Harris found herself in this position by happenstance, but she’s performing superbly, and her choice of running mate couldn’t be more perfect! ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2024, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harriss-choice-of-tim-walz-as-vp/1005352/100 "2024-08-07T08:04:20Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > America is truly at a crossroads. Failing to elect Harris-Walz would not only be a missed opportunity of epic, historic proportions, but the Trump ticket would surely send the nation down the path of darkness. Your latter point is what worries me. I’ve stated elsewhere that Trump claims to be unaware of what Project 2025 entails, but he knows what it means, and as a payback to those who support him (many Project 2025 fans), he’ll implement what they want. Which means that the United States will basically become the Republic of Gilead, as depicted in _The Handmaid’s Tale_, by Margaret Atwood. Of course, American women today are not afflicted with the [something? nuclear bomb? something? pandemic?] sterilization that made fertile women in Gilead so prized in Atwood’s novel. But Gilead is what Project 2025 wants, and Trump is too stupid to understand that, and he will say that he will deliver it, just to get votes. I have many American friends and relatives in the United States. If they feel the need to come here to Canada, I will do my best to help them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harriss-choice-of-tim-walz-as-vp/1005352.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-harriss-choice-of-tim-walz-as-vp/1005352.md?page=6)