# Kamala owns a gun "for personal safety" **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 12, 2019, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-owns-a-gun-for-personal-safety/832465 "2019-04-12T22:54:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2019, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-owns-a-gun-for-personal-safety/832465/241 "2019-04-25T16:55:42Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > When was the last time a Senator was attacked by a gun-weilding assailant? The 60’s? Better yet, has a female Senator ever been attacked by a gun-weilding assailant? I find it strange that you’re making a distinction between a Senator being attacked and a representative being attacked (which has happened to members of both parties). Anyway, what do you think of my explanations in posts 181 and 182 as to why her understanding of the statistics might not be wrong, since she’s different than the average person (the average person is indeed in more danger by having a gun at home, right?). Also, I’d love your collusion explanation, whenever you have it put together. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2019, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-owns-a-gun-for-personal-safety/832465/242 "2019-04-25T17:18:33Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I find it strange that you’re making a distinction between a Senator being attacked and a representative being attacked (which has happened to members of both parties). … She’s a senator, not a representative. Why would that be strange? > [@RitterSport](#): > > … Anyway, what do you think of my explanations in posts 181 and 182 as to why her understanding of the statistics might not be wrong, since she’s different than the average person (the average person is indeed in more danger by having a gun at home, right?). … I think the Kellerman study has various flaws, but one of the things I hoped to see in this thread were arguments about how averages don’t necessarily invalidate one’s personal decision. Your post #182 was an excellent example of this. As for #181, your first, third, and fourth points strike me as reasonable, and #2, 5, and 6 strike me as far more speculative. I don’t think there’s much evidence to support the assertion that anti-gun / African-American / progressive politicians are in significantly more danger than pro-gun / non-African-American / non-progressive politicians. In addition to them, I’d also note that women are generally at less risk of violent crime than men, and wealthy people are generally at less risk of violent crime than poor people, both of which cut against Kamala’s perceived risk. > [@RitterSport](#): > > … Also, I’d love your collusion explanation, whenever you have it put together. It’s still a work in progress, on my computer at home, but I haven’t forgotten about it. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2019, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-owns-a-gun-for-personal-safety/832465/243 "2019-04-25T17:59:58Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > In this case,\* exactly as she claimed\*- It’s going outside the laws, with a Executive Order, bypassing Congress. > > what do _you_ think it is? That’s not what an executive order is. From the top of my head, executive orders give guidance to executive branch staff on how to carry out various actions as they relate to their job duties. For example, a law could say, the IRS will do X. X can be broadly construed, so the President, via executive order, can clarify that he is directing the IRS to do X via means A, B, and C, but not D. [The legal or constitutional basis for executive orders has multiple sources. Article Two of the United States Constitution gives the president broad executive and enforcement authority to use their discretion to determine how to enforce the law or to otherwise manage the resources and staff of the executive branch. The ability to make such orders is also based on express or implied Acts of Congress that delegate to the President some degree of discretionary power (delegated legislation).[2]"]And here is from the wiki:](In the United States, an executive order is a directive issued by the President of the United States that manages operations of the federal government and has the force of law.[1) > [@](#): > > In the United States, an executive order is a directive issued by the President of the United States that manages operations of the federal government and has the force of law.[1] The legal or constitutional basis for executive orders has multiple sources. Article Two of the United States Constitution gives the president broad executive and enforcement authority to use their discretion to determine how to enforce the law or to otherwise manage the resources and staff of the executive branch. The ability to make such orders is also based on express or implied Acts of Congress that delegate to the President some degree of discretionary power (delegated legislation).[2] A president probably has room to clarify what constitutes a dealer, but it would need to go through the rule making process rather than executive order if I recall correctly. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > When was the last time a Senator was attacked by a gun-weilding assailant? The 60’s? Better yet, has a female Senator ever been attacked by a gun-weilding assailant? This hair splitting is absurd. What’s next, phases of the moon? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2019, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-owns-a-gun-for-personal-safety/832465/244 "2019-04-25T18:20:18Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > She’s a senator, not a representative. Why would that be strange? Because it’s too specific, as **Bone** points out. I think politicians make more sense as a class than Senators vs. Representatives, for this purpose. Is your point that there are fewer Senators, so it’s less likely they would be a target? They have better security? > [@](#): > > I think the Kellerman study has various flaws, but one of the things I hoped to see in this thread were arguments about how averages don’t necessarily invalidate one’s personal decision. Your post #182 was an excellent example of this. As for #181, your first, third, and fourth points strike me as reasonable, and #2, 5, and 6 strike me as far more speculative. I don’t think there’s much evidence to support the assertion that anti-gun / African-American / progressive politicians are in significantly more danger than pro-gun / non-African-American / non-progressive politicians. In addition to them, I’d also note that women are generally at less risk of violent crime than men, and wealthy people are generally at less risk of violent crime than poor people, both of which cut against Kamala’s perceived risk. I guess the question is, is her wealth or womanhood more of an outlier than her status as a Senator running for President, in terms of the relative dangers. I’d say that the latter cases (Senator, candidate) are more of an outlier and would have a larger affect on her personal risk. Anyway, if you agree that many of my points are valid, doesn’t that undercut the whole purpose of this thread? > [@](#): > > It’s still a work in progress, on my computer at home, but I haven’t forgotten about it. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2019, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-owns-a-gun-for-personal-safety/832465/245 "2019-04-25T18:24:57Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > … (the average person is indeed in more danger by having a gun at home, right?). This is outside of the discussion about Harris, but this is also not accurate. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2019, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-owns-a-gun-for-personal-safety/832465/246 "2019-04-25T18:29:35Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > … Anyway, if you agree that many of my points are valid, doesn’t that undercut the whole purpose of this thread? … Not at all. As I said earlier: > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > … one of the things I hoped to see in this thread were arguments about how averages don’t necessarily invalidate one’s personal decision. … ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2019, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-owns-a-gun-for-personal-safety/832465/247 "2019-04-25T18:31:11Z")
[Here we go.](https://biotech.law.lsu.edu/blaw/olc/depmar.htm) Did my heart good to see them get their pee-pees smacked, I must say. It doesn’t sit well with me when our political and bureaucratic employees give themselves privileges unavailable to common slobs. Harris gets a pass because she is technically LE, I guess, but her job was never the same as a what a police officer does. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2019, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-owns-a-gun-for-personal-safety/832465/248 "2019-04-25T18:50:57Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > In this case,\* exactly as she claimed\*- It’s going outside the laws, with a Executive Order, bypassing Congress. > > what do _you_ think it is? Wait, now she isn’t proposing to enforce the laws on the books? Executive orders are for clarifying where the law is vague and how to execute those laws - so creating that bright “five gun” line is entirely within the purview of the office. Even the NRA agrees that unlicensed firearm dealers are criminals. I agree with **Bone** in that I’d rather Harris clarify it via ATF regulation instead of another method, but to claim she’s “bypassing Congress” is junk. When prosecutors AND defense attorneys hate the wording of a law, because it’s so vague, clarification should not only be desired, but required. The current law is like a speed limit sign reading, “Whatever The Cop Feels Like Today”. The rest of it is, essentially, “We’re going to FOCUS on how to enforce these laws to prevent unnecessary gun deaths.” ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2019, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-owns-a-gun-for-personal-safety/832465/249 "2019-04-25T19:04:45Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > This is outside of the discussion about Harris, but this is also not accurate. I non-sarcastically bow to your superior knowledge on this subject, but I thought that was the baseline assumption for this thread – that the statistics show that having a gun in the home increases your risk rather than decreases it. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Not at all. As I said earlier: I wish you had started with that (Let’s have a discussion about how individual circumstances can affect the decision to own a gun) rather than the way you did (What? Doesn’t she understand statistics?). I think the discussion would have been more productive. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2019, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-owns-a-gun-for-personal-safety/832465/250 "2019-04-25T19:21:08Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I non-sarcastically bow to your superior knowledge on this subject, but I thought that was the baseline assumption for this thread – that the statistics show that having a gun in the home increases your risk rather than decreases it. … That line from the OP was offered with a heavy dose of sarcasm, although I apparently failed to make that clear. My apologies. > [@RitterSport](#): > > … I wish you had started with that (Let’s have a discussion about how individual circumstances can affect the decision to own a gun) rather than the way you did (What? Doesn’t she understand statistics?). I think the discussion would have been more productive. There are, undoubtedly, a lot of ways the thread could have been started. Kamala was in the news with her recent comment, which is what had me thinking about the subject, so that’s what I started with, but I will try to keep your suggestions here in mind in the future. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2019, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-owns-a-gun-for-personal-safety/832465/251 "2019-04-25T20:53:59Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Republican politicians who have had an abortion: for sure there’s some, but it’s a secret buried deeper than the Ark of the Covenant in that government warehouse. Not necessarily; we had one running for State Representative back last year, and she admitted to having had 3(!) in her youth, but framed it all in some sort of Christian redemption story. She was batshit crazy across the board though ([read this!](http://politics.blog.mystatesman.com/2018/02/15/my-son-who-is-autistic-was-robbed-by-three-black-thugs-lisa-luby-ryan-on-why-she-will-oppose-gun-regulation-to-my-last-breath/)) and got trounced by her Democratic opponent. Which always struck me as kind of ironic, because the moderate incumbent she defeated in the primary probably would have won handily over the Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-owns-a-gun-for-personal-safety/832465/252 "2019-04-26T13:12:42Z")
Serves the Pubs right. Schadenfreude feels good sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-owns-a-gun-for-personal-safety/832465/253 "2019-04-29T01:20:49Z")
Some people will probably find [this](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/usa-today-slammed-for-arguing-kamala-harris-gun-ownership-is-disqualifying) interesting: > [@](#): > > “Kamala Harris doesn’t seem to have the courage to concede that owning a handgun for protection is a bad idea,” Funt continued. “Instead, she has given voters a real choice: Back candidates who care enough about gun control to not own handguns, or support the only major Democratic contender who has one and won’t throw it away.” ---
**Author:** ![dba\_Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@dba\_Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dba_Fred)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-owns-a-gun-for-personal-safety/832465/254 "2019-04-29T01:48:57Z")
Can’t you see, Harris’s position has evolved: _They called me a **gun grabber** so I grabbed myself one!_ ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-owns-a-gun-for-personal-safety/832465/255 "2019-04-29T01:50:39Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Some people will probably find [this](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/usa-today-slammed-for-arguing-kamala-harris-gun-ownership-is-disqualifying) interesting: It’s interesting that those views were “widely criticized” according to your link. I’ll give you credit, you did find one person who objects to Senator Harris owning a handgun. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-owns-a-gun-for-personal-safety/832465/256 "2019-04-29T03:07:05Z")
Interesting thread. Joining late, I will still add my two cents: Who gives a shit if she has a gun. As a liberal-leaning independent I am (and always have been) agnostic on gun ownership and believe it is settled law thanks to Heller and McDonald. Many of my friends who are card carrying, Sanders supporting Democrats also would not give a shit as many of them also own guns. In the main, democrats want regulation of guns, not an outright ban. This has always been my impression and I always thought it was strange that the GOP have painted Democrats as gun grabbers because I never saw this as a priority. Background checks, assault weapon bans, gun show loophole closure, sure, but banning guns? Never. Finally, wow, I never noticed how over the top angry Scumpup was until this thread; has this person been this fucking partisan and angry for a long time or is this a new thing? Guy is over the top and should really seek some therapy or take a vacation. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-owns-a-gun-for-personal-safety/832465/257 "2019-04-29T08:29:24Z")
You all on the left should probably see a chiropractor for all of the twisting and turning you are during to attempt to reconcile past posts on this board with your current support for Harris owning guns. I mean, we have heard for years that people own guns solely for the purpose of extending our penis size, or to feel like Clint Eastwood when any right thinking person knows that owning guns is far more dangerous to you and your family that any bad guy that we just have a juicy hard on hoping, praying that we get to kill. But now when Harris owns guns, it is for the very responsible purpose of self protection. The rest of us owning guns will use them to commit suicide, commit crimes, or be taken by one of our kids, but not Harris. It is good to know that once I chance my voters registration from Republican to Democrats and maybe throw out a statement in support of abortion that my gun ownership may become responsible as well. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-owns-a-gun-for-personal-safety/832465/258 "2019-04-29T08:38:21Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > You all on the left should probably see a chiropractor for all of the twisting and turning you are during to attempt to reconcile past posts on this board with your current support for Harris owning guns. > > I mean, we have heard for years that people own guns solely for the purpose of extending our penis size, or to feel like Clint Eastwood when any right thinking person knows that owning guns is far more dangerous to you and your family that any bad guy that we just have a juicy hard on hoping, praying that we get to kill. > > But now when Harris owns guns, it is for the very responsible purpose of self protection. The rest of us owning guns will use them to commit suicide, commit crimes, or be taken by one of our kids, but not Harris. It is good to know that once I chance my voters registration from Republican to Democrats and maybe throw out a statement in support of abortion that my gun ownership may become responsible as well. …you all “on the right” should stop making strawman arguments, attacking positions positions that people haven’t taken, and take a bit of time to read the thread so you can realize that you are arguing with yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-owns-a-gun-for-personal-safety/832465/259 "2019-04-29T09:07:13Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > You all on the left should probably see a chiropractor for all of the twisting and turning you are during to attempt to reconcile past posts on this board with your current support for Harris owning guns. > > I mean, we have heard for years that people own guns solely for the purpose of extending our penis size, or to feel like Clint Eastwood when any right thinking person knows that owning guns is far more dangerous to you and your family that any bad guy that we just have a juicy hard on hoping, praying that we get to kill. > > But now when Harris owns guns, it is for the very responsible purpose of self protection. The rest of us owning guns will use them to commit suicide, commit crimes, or be taken by one of our kids, but not Harris. It is good to know that once I chance my voters registration from Republican to Democrats and maybe throw out a statement in support of abortion that my gun ownership may become responsible as well. Strangely enough, I trust a former DA and sitting Senator to be more responsible than someone that posts this drivel. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2019, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-owns-a-gun-for-personal-safety/832465/260 "2019-04-29T12:56:19Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > You all on the left should probably see a chiropractor for all of the twisting and turning you are during to attempt to reconcile past posts on this board with your current support for Harris owning guns. > > I mean, we have heard for years that people own guns solely for the purpose of extending our penis size, or to feel like Clint Eastwood when any right thinking person knows that owning guns is far more dangerous to you and your family that any bad guy that we just have a juicy hard on hoping, praying that we get to kill. > > But now when Harris owns guns, it is for the very responsible purpose of self protection. The rest of us owning guns will use them to commit suicide, commit crimes, or be taken by one of our kids, but not Harris. It is good to know that once I chance my voters registration from Republican to Democrats and maybe throw out a statement in support of abortion that my gun ownership may become responsible as well. Cite for any of this? My impression is that we’re almost all fine with legitimate self-defense. We do get tired of all the balderdash and hyperbole from gun worshipers. I’ll offer cites for this claim, even if you have no cite for yours. As an example of balderdash, use the quoted post above. As an example of hyperbole, consider the recent citation in another thread that _gun toters believe they have saved 350,000 lives with their ‘DGUs.’_ @ **UltraVires** — Does that 350,000 figure seem plausible to you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-owns-a-gun-for-personal-safety/832465.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamala-owns-a-gun-for-personal-safety/832465.md?page=14)