# Kambucta's right... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 16, 2003, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kambuctas-right/155349 "2003-02-16T01:46:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kambuctas-right/155349/21 "2003-02-16T03:09:40Z")
**RedFury** …It is funny isn’t it. You’d think the NSA/DIA/CIA or whatever would frown on them even mentioning it. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kambuctas-right/155349/22 "2003-02-16T03:11:53Z")
It is my opinion that an offensive attack against Iraq is wrong. It is my opinion that different strategies to oust Saddam may not have been fully explored. It is my opinion that war should ALWAYS be a last resort. It is my opinion that the US’s disregard for UN directives is pure arrogance. It is my opinion that the ‘reasons’ given by Bush et al to justify this war are not the complete story: it is economics rather than the threat posed by Saddam that is motivating the US. It is my opinion that my PM is NOT representing the wishes of most Australians when he commits our troops to the Middle East. It is my opinion that this (potential) war sucks serious arse. These are my OPINIONS. You may try to change them by all means. I don’t claim to be _right_, they are only my opinions based upon my current world view and the evidence (or lack thereof) that is used to support Bush and his warmongering cronies. But don’t you dare tell me that I am WRONG, or that the other 9,999,999 who are marching in support of peace around the world this weekend that they have no right to their opinions. Fuck you. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kambuctas-right/155349/23 "2003-02-16T03:11:58Z")
What, you don’t think that I get to see intel? As a deployable combatant? Come on, you must know that we have to be able to see what we have to avoid and what may happen while we’re over there. Common sense dictates that. I think your question is a red herring, **Reeder** , and I think you know it too. ---
**Author:** ![Thylacine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thylacine/32/1143_2.png) [@Thylacine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thylacine)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kambuctas-right/155349/24 "2003-02-16T03:12:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Reeder \* > \*\ ***Airman Doors, USAF** You are privy to intelligence that we the civilian populace doesn’t have?? You’ve been in the Air Force exactly how long? \*\* It is better than that **Reeder** , they have information that clearly most members of the UN Security Council are unaware of. Bow down, we are in the presence of greatness. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![White\_Lightning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@White\_Lightning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/White_Lightning)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kambuctas-right/155349/25 "2003-02-16T03:12:46Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Airman Doors, USAF** _ > I’m hoping the situation becomes clear to you guys eventually. I hope it does too. I also envy you. Those of us that aren’t priveleged enough to be privy to all the facts that are apparently clear as day to you two have to work with what we’ve got and what we’re given. How else are we expected to react? We are misled, deceived, left in the dark, and lied to. Apparently you’re exempt from that kind of treatment. But we’re supposed to accept it just because the government says it’s so? And believe you that they’re right just because you say so? We do live in a democracy, officially. **gobear** , you are such a fucking prick sometimes. No shit Saddam’s a threat to regional peace. The moment I hear anyone argue that he’s a good guy, I’ll definitely page you so you can rush in and have some relevance. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kambuctas-right/155349/26 "2003-02-16T03:13:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Reeder \* > \*\ ***RedFury** …It is funny isn’t it. You’d think the NSA/DIA/CIA or whatever would frown on them even mentioning it. \*\* Yep. You’d almost expect all of them to be" terminated with extreme prejudice" any minute now. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kambuctas-right/155349/27 "2003-02-16T03:14:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > \*\*That’s just it. We can beg, plead, and cajole all night and yet it looks like McCarthyism. It’s very frustrating. > > I resent the fact that you people can protest the war with no knowledge, but when we support it with knowledge but are legally bound to keep it a secret, you call us liars or say “Bullshit” and then continue on with your anti-war celebrations, snug in the knowledge that you’re making the world a better place by your actions. > > I can only hope that in a few months you’ll understand why I’m saying this. I’ve opened myself up, as has **Bluesman** , for all of your resentment about the war. Why would we do that if we didn’t know something? But go ahead and continue. I’m hoping the situation becomes clear to you guys eventually. \*\* Yeah, the poor, put-upon military and conservatives are having such a hard time in this day and age. What with a radical left-wing Administration and all those anti-capitalist doves in Congress, it’s an awful time to be anywhere right of center. And no, begging, pleading and cajoling does not look like McCarthyism. What looks like McCarthyism is asking people to spy on their neighbours, subverting the Bill of Rights, holding potential witnesses indefinitely without access to counsel, listening in on lawyer/client discussions, etc., etc., etc. All of which is lumped under the so-called War on Terror that the bombing of Iraq will allegedly help to further. And as for knowledge, again we see the self-serving argument that the only possible knowledge about this situation comes directly from the United States military and associated agencies. The UN, of course, knows nothing, and neither do any of the non-government organizations with a presence in Iraq, and neither do any of the governments around the world that are opposed to military action. As for your final paragraph, i tend to think that you’ll be happy in a few months, but i really don’t think very much will “become clear.” Given that Bush’s overpowering desire to bomb Iraq will likely win out, even in the face of strong opposition worldwide, we’ll probably never know exactly where peaceful actions might have got us. While you’re feeling all frustrated at the ignorance of the anti-war crew right now, you’ll be able to thrust dead Iraqis in our faces pretty soon to show us how wrong we were. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kambuctas-right/155349/28 "2003-02-16T03:15:11Z")
**Airman Doors,USAF** …I too served my country in a foriegn war. I wasn’t just deployable, I was there. I know for a fact that they don’t share high intelligence with the common soldier, or as in your case airman. So lets get real shall we? ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kambuctas-right/155349/29 "2003-02-16T03:16:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*The sad thing, **Airman** , is that these protesters don’t need your information to see how foolsih they’re being, The need only read the newspapers or read some of the recent books on Iraqi history to see that Saddam has been a threat to regional peace since he succeeded to office in 1979. \*\* Funny how I can read newspapers, books on Middle East history, or human rights reports on the Iraqi Kurds, or political asylum applications in my previous job before forwarding them to the State Department for evaluation, and yet arrive at the exact opposite conclusion that you have. As I’ve said a zillion times in other threads, I don’t at all dispute that Saddam Hussein is an evil human being, and that even I, as an avowed pacifist, would not at all mind if he were blown to smithereens. I just don’t believe that a war will resolve more issues than it creates, either short- or long-term. When you can point me to some info that will convince me that large amounts of killing and destruction now will prevent even larger amounts of killing and destruction down the road, then we’ll have something of substance to discuss. In the meantime, you’re just engaging in jingostic pseudointellectual masturbation. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kambuctas-right/155349/30 "2003-02-16T03:16:25Z")
> [@](#): > > gobear, you are such a fucking prick sometimes. No shit Saddam’s a threat to regional peace. The moment I hear anyone argue that he’s a good guy, I’ll definitely page you so you can rush in and have some relevance Hugs and kisses right back atcha, **White Lightning**. Sure, you should demand an accounting fron the government and a decent rationale for going to war. Colin Powell provided it at the UN. Pay attention next time. And if you think Saddam’s a threat to regional peace, why are you opposed to taking action against him? ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kambuctas-right/155349/31 "2003-02-16T03:16:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > **I resent the fact that you people can protest the war with no knowledge, but when we support it with knowledge but are legally bound to keep it a secret, you call us liars or say “Bullshit” and then continue on with your anti-war celebrations, snug in the knowledge that you’re making the world a better place by your actions.** Did you ever think that the unqualified contempt you and Bluesman have shown for the protesters may be reason they call “bullshit” on you? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kambuctas-right/155349/32 "2003-02-16T03:20:35Z")
OK. You win. I know nothing. I’m just a dummy. We shouldn’t go to war, and I’m just a tool of the imperialists. They tell me nothing, I’m worthless to them, I just do what I’m told like a good little airman. I trust my concession satisfies? That pretty much puts all of your assumptions about me into a nice tight package, so it should be satisfactory. I should have known better than to get involved in this. ---
**Author:** ![White\_Lightning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@White\_Lightning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/White_Lightning)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kambuctas-right/155349/33 "2003-02-16T03:25:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by \*\*gobear \*\*\* > Hugs and kisses right back atcha, **White Lightning**. Sure, you should demand an accounting fron the government and a decent rationale for going to war. Colin Powell provided it at the UN. Pay attention next time. He didn’t say one single thing that I hadn’t heard before. What he pretty much expressed to me was that we were going to war regardless of what evidence was or wasn’t found in weapons inspections, and regardless of what Saddam did or didn’t do, and regardless of what anyone else around the world had to say about it. This is supposed to be proof of what exactly? > [@](#): > > And if you think Saddam’s a threat to regional peace, why are you opposed to taking action against him? Because all the reasons that have been presented so far look like very obvious bullshit. Also what **Eva Luna** said. Where did Saddam come from? From the US “fixing” regional problems. **Airman** , are you seriously trying to whine about ‘assumptions’? Let me ask you this. If I came in here and said “OK, you win, I know nothing, I’m just a dummy, we should go to war, and I’m just a tool of the left-wing propagandists and peaceniks, and I can’t think for myself,” would that make me look like a good debater, or a total fool and a crybaby to boot? ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kambuctas-right/155349/34 "2003-02-16T03:26:32Z")
You should have known better than to brag that you have inside information. Did it make you feel important? Hell…you are just an airman…what…an E-2 maybe an E-3? Please. ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kambuctas-right/155349/35 "2003-02-16T03:28:23Z")
Fuck, are you ever missing the point. You, the hawks, the Bush administration, et al, have a credibility problem with a lot of people for a variety of reasons. Rather than addressing that, you go and pout with your secret knowledge, after reassuring each other that “they” don’t know anything. And you wonder why you don’t get more respect? ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kambuctas-right/155349/36 "2003-02-16T03:30:13Z")
It is my opinion that an offensive attack against Iraq is wrong. It is my opinion that different strategies to oust Saddam may not have been fully explored. It is my opinion that war should ALWAYS be a last resort. It is my opinion that the US’s disregard for UN directives is pure arrogance. It is my opinion that the ‘reasons’ given by Bush et al to justify this war are not the complete story. It is my opinion that my PM is NOT representing my wishes (or perhaps the wishes of the majority of Aussies) when he commits our troops to the Middle East. It is my opinion that this (potential) war sucks serious arse. These are my OPINIONS. You may try to change them by all means. I don’t claim to be _right_, they are only my opinions based upon my current world view and the evidence (or lack thereof) that is used to support Bush and his warmongering cronies. But don’t you dare tell me that I am WRONG for holding them, or that the other 9,999,999 who are marching in support of peace around the world this weekend that they have no right to their opinions either. Fuck you (and the fucking hamsters this afternoon…grrrrrrrr) ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kambuctas-right/155349/37 "2003-02-16T03:32:40Z")
Looks like we’re not done quite done yet. Different thread, same Bushit. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*Colin Powell provided it at the UN. Pay attention next time. \*\* No. YOU pay attention next time. Powell’s speech has been descredited from here to Timbuktu. Starting with the blatant plagiarism of a 12 year old student’s thesis presented as “latest British intel” to Blix’s questioning of the aerial shots as “evidence of anything.” More hot air. Desperate is as desperate does. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kambuctas-right/155349/38 "2003-02-16T03:33:18Z")
You’ve already assumed that I am a fool, so I’m giving up trying to argue. I am unable to convince you, so I’m conceding, and in order to forestall the inevitable sniping at me after I’m gone I figured I’d hit the high points of what I expected you guys to say after I left, thus forstalling the necessity of seeing you guys waste time typing insults at my expense. From the beginning this thread wasn’t a debate, this was a mistake, and besides, a good debater has evidence, which I’m unwilling to provide. Call it a whine, if you will. I forgot to include that, so add that to the list too. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kambuctas-right/155349/39 "2003-02-16T03:33:47Z")
> [@](#): > > What a depressing thread this is. > [@](#): > > Conservative circle-jerks are just as boring as liberal circle-jerks. My anti-war demonstration and resolve are bigger than your pro-war demonstration and resolve. NYANNNNNAAAAAHHHHHH :rolleyes: [sub]stupid pissing contest[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kambuctas-right/155349/40 "2003-02-16T03:34:17Z")
> [@](#): > > I resent the fact that you people can protest the war with no knowledge, but when we support it with knowledge but are legally bound to keep it a secret, As other posters have said, but in a nicer way, YOU DON"T KNOW DICK! The hubris of military and quasi-military flunkies knows no bounds. If you DID know DICK, and posted what the both of you have posted here, then you’d be out of a job tomorrow morning. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kambuctas-right/155349.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kambuctas-right/155349.md?page=3)