# Kamikaze's (WWII Quick Question) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 5, 2000, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamikazes-wwii-quick-question/21488 "2000-06-05T20:54:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2000, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamikazes-wwii-quick-question/21488/21 "2000-06-07T11:34:19Z")
> [@](#): > > There’s a big difference between someone impulsively jumping on a grenade to save his comrades and someone ritualistically committing suicide in the hope of killing a bunch of others in the process. Kamikaze missions were actually rather logical. Someone mentioned Torpedo 8. If they had not been intending to come home, would they have been able to successfully hit a ship with their aircraft? They were all shot down, and IIRC Lt. George Gay was the only survivor. Think of ants. Individual ants will sacrifice themselves for the good of the nest. Individual ants die, but the society continues. How many lives did it cost to sink a ship? If a ship could be sunk with the loss of only one life, then I’d say it’s a bargain. Kamikazes were ideological, yes. But I don’t think they were fools. They were just putting their society and loved ones ahead of their personal safety. ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2000, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamikazes-wwii-quick-question/21488/22 "2000-06-07T14:15:37Z")
I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone ridicule the kamikaze pilots themselves. The concept of carefully planning for people to die on one-way missions has sometimes been ridiculed, and perhaps correctly so. Sure, it’s logical, but it’s very remote from our way of thinking. But the pilots themselves ? The worst I’ve ever heard is a slightly overbearing tone, a sort of “poor brainwashed sods” sentiment. (Never mind what they were called by their immediate opponents - there was a war going on). Then again, in my mind, at least, there’s a difference between immediately saving your comrades in defensive action (jumping on the grenade) and taking out the enemy’s capability to eventually hurt them later by deliberately giving up your life in an attack. The first is a sort of desperate last-measure act, the last seems premeditated and very alien to me. Sure, we expect soldiers to run risks and sometimes very high risks, but nothing like this. And I’ll add the “Carriers this way” story to my stock of WWII anecdotes… [hijack] The battle of Jutland did too have aircraft involvement, though not in the anti-ship role: Planes took off from a British carrier (darn if I remember the name) and attacked the Zeppelin base in the (then) German town of Tönder. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![jwg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@jwg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jwg)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2000, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamikazes-wwii-quick-question/21488/23 "2000-06-08T20:59:15Z")
Another point to consider - kamikaze pilots were all volunteers, but many were volunteered by their commanders. They did not all jump at the chance to commit suicide - a few did, but reluctance and hesitation was not uncommon at all - that is why many of the aircraft were rigged so that the pilot could not get out or safely land. Their government did not give them much of a choice, and the propaganda that they were all willing, eager volunteers was meant to for both internal and external audiences. Internally, it demonstrated to themselves how noble the Japanese were, it mollifed the revulsion the families might have to the idea, and encouraged the more reluctant to go along. Externally, it was meant to demoralize the US and the Allies. Part of the Japanese war plan from the very beginning was the concept that the spiritually weak, uncultured and decadent Americans would be demoralized and break under the strain of confronting the superior Japanese. ---
**Author:** ![Asmodeus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@Asmodeus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asmodeus)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2000, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamikazes-wwii-quick-question/21488/24 "2000-06-08T21:32:49Z")
Spiny… There were no carriers in WW1. The first carrier was the Langley. > [@](#): > > Built by Mare Island Navy Yard as collier Jupiter (AC 3). Laid down 18 Oct 1911, launched 24 Aug 1912, commissioned as > collier 7 April 1913. Converted to experimental aircraft carrier at Norfolk Navy Yard 24 March 1920 to 20 March 1922. > Renamed Langley 11 April 1920, reclassified CV 1 and recommissioned 20 March 1922. [http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/carriers/](http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/carriers/) Don’t know if the British BB’s had float planes during that time period. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2000, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamikazes-wwii-quick-question/21488/25 "2000-06-08T21:44:02Z")
Langley was the first American carrier. The British had five carriers in WWI. The shipboard Sopwith Camels, model 2F.1, flew from them as well as off special decks mounted to two battleships and twenty-six cruisers. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2000, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamikazes-wwii-quick-question/21488/26 "2000-06-08T21:46:09Z")
Quotes below are taken from: Source: [http://www.tcr.org/kamikaze.html](http://www.tcr.org/kamikaze.html) > [@](#): > > In October, 1944, the plans for the organized suicide attacks became reality. Having received permission from the Minister of the Navy, Admiral Onishi entered Clark Air Base prepared to command the first organized suicide attacks.[14] Onishi had not thought the organized suicide attacks to be an efficient tactic, but that they would be a powerful battle tactic, and he believed that it would be the best and most beautiful place for the pilots to die. Onishi once said, “if they (the young pilots) are on land, they would be bombed down, and if they are in the air, they would be shot down. That’s sad…Too sad…To let the young men die beautifully, that’s what Tokko is. To give beautiful death, that’s called sympathy.”[15] Source: [http://www.tcr.org/kamikaze.html](http://www.tcr.org/kamikaze.html) And perhaps more to the point… > [@](#): > > Since the Kamikaze attacks were to be made only if the pilots had volunteered, and could not be “commanded,” there were two methods to collect volunteers. One was for all pilots in general, and another was for the Special Flight Officer Probationary Cadet (College graduates) only. The former was an application form, and the latter was a survey. The survey asked: “Do you desire earnestly/wish/do not wish/to be involved in the Kamikaze attacks?” They had to circle one of the three choices, or leave the paper blank. The important fact is that the pilots were required to sign their names.[29] When the military had the absolute power, and the whole atmosphere of Japan expected men to die for the country, there was great psychological pressure to circle “earnestly desire” or “wish.” The Army selected those who had circled “earnestly desire.” The reason that the Special Flight Officer Probationary Cadet had to answer such a survey rather than send the applications at their own will was probably because the military had known that the students who had come from college had a wider vision, and would not easily apply for such a mission. For the regular application, the Army was confident that there would be many young pilots who would apply. They were correct. Every student of the 15th term of the Youth Pilot Training School had applied. Because there were so many volunteers, the military had decided to let the ones with better grades go first.[30] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kamikazes-wwii-quick-question/21488.md?page=1)