# Kanicbird. Yeah, It's probably pointless, but.. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 30, 2009, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanicbird-yeah-its-probably-pointless-but/483711 "2009-01-30T14:37:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanicbird-yeah-its-probably-pointless-but/483711/281 "2009-02-07T18:51:53Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > In what respect? Death is required for sin. Either the person must pay or accept Jesus paying for him. Well, obviously, the first people to hear The Word as you call it didn’t have that option. If the original plan was so perfect, why didn’t Jesus show up 5,000 years earlier? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanicbird-yeah-its-probably-pointless-but/483711/282 "2009-02-07T18:55:45Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > The Church at Corinth IIRC, but all of them including Corinth, Galatia, Ephesus, Philippa, Colossi, Thessalonica, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Saddis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea, should hold to those teachings. It is not a religion, as that is made by man, but a faith in God through Jesus, sometimes called the way. It’s your own religion, then. Which version of The Bible do you follow? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanicbird-yeah-its-probably-pointless-but/483711/283 "2009-02-07T18:57:55Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, obviously, the first people to hear The Word as you call it didn’t have that option. If the original plan was so perfect, why didn’t Jesus show up 5,000 years earlier? What makes you think most people are not living in OT times today? Following things like the 10 commandments, going through pharisees sometimes called priests, or pastors today to get to God instead of going directly to Jesus. Also look at King David’s life, he violated the Law by eating and give n to eat bread that was only lawful for the priests to eat, yet he was found blameless in that by Jesus. So King David was living under the NT grace and not under OT law. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanicbird-yeah-its-probably-pointless-but/483711/284 "2009-02-07T18:58:29Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > It’s fruit, as in fruit of the spirit, or for that matter fruit of the loom. I prefer Ambrielle or Bali-for bras, myself. But, to each his or her own. **Kanicbird** , the only “demons” are metaphorical. For example, I have obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD). Often, obsessions can FEEL like demons chasing you, because untreated, you cannot stop them on your own. In fact, the more you try, the more you obsess, and the worse it gets. But these were not literal demons. It was a chemical imbalance, corrected by medication-which most likely I’ll take for the rest of my life-and other methods that have made it merely a minor annoyance. Being brought up Catholic, I was never familiar with Biblical literalism. The Bible was mostly to teach-not something to be taken word for word. Exorcisms are very, VERY rarely done in the Catholic church nowadays. Catholicism very much encourages education over superstition. As for these so-called “exorcisms” you saw, I’m guessing it was a case of psychosomatic, or mind over matter. **Skald the Rhymer** , are you TRYING to make me vomit? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanicbird-yeah-its-probably-pointless-but/483711/285 "2009-02-07T19:00:56Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > It’s your own religion, then. > Which version of The Bible do you follow? God has lead me to use the NIV most of the times, sometimes using the NASB, New and ‘old’ KJV, sometimes going to the Hebrew and Greek Lexicon. He has also pointed out some corrupted versions, ones with impure motives in their premise. But I don’t follow them, I follow the Word spoken to my heart by the Holy Spirit through them. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanicbird-yeah-its-probably-pointless-but/483711/286 "2009-02-07T19:06:10Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Being brought up Catholic, I was never familiar with Biblical literalism. The Bible was mostly to teach-not something to be taken word for word. Exorcisms are very, VERY rarely done in the Catholic church nowadays. Catholicism very much encourages education over superstition. > As for these so-called “exorcisms” you saw, I’m guessing it was a case of psychosomatic, or mind over matter. > **Skald the Rhymer** , are you TRYING to make me vomit? The Catholic rite of exorcism is a very weird thing and not scriptural and not how I witnesses real demons being cast out. They are cast out just as it states in scripture. ‘In the name of Jesus I command the spirit of the antichrist to come out of this thread and never to return’. That’s how it works in scriptures and that’s how it works with the power of God today. No where can you find anything in scriptures about what is done in exorcisms, and if it’s not in scripture you don’t want it. But demons are very real, though OCD may be the result of damage inflicted to you by the world and may need healing, not being cast out. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanicbird-yeah-its-probably-pointless-but/483711/287 "2009-02-07T19:06:13Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > God has lead me to use the NIV most of the times, sometimes using the NASB, New and ‘old’ KJV, sometimes going to the Hebrew and Greek Lexicon. He has also pointed out some corrupted versions, ones with impure motives in their premise. But I don’t follow them, I follow the Word spoken to my heart by the Holy Spirit through them. So you pick and choose from all versions, and if you can’t justify your beliefs using any of those, you just make it up. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanicbird-yeah-its-probably-pointless-but/483711/288 "2009-02-07T19:09:48Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > You guys are actually debating **kanicbird** , as if he were in any way open to logic, as if somehow you possess the one voice of reason that can break through all the insanity, where so many have failed? > > You must be new around here. I can’t speak for anyone else, but when I talk to kanicbird I do so in the hopes that the questions he can only answer with further insanities will plant seeds of doubt in more moderate believers. It’s part of what worked for me. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanicbird-yeah-its-probably-pointless-but/483711/289 "2009-02-07T19:15:11Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Allah is not the same God, Allah is a demon from hell leading people away from Jesus. This is evident in the story of creation (Genesis 1-3vs. the enemy’s interpretation in the Koran), and also with the use of the word ‘we’ when Allah, self proclaimed single god (very common with demons to use 'we This is objectively wrong. Allah just means “God” and Muslims adore the same God as Christians do. You might not agree with their interpretation but it is the same entity. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanicbird-yeah-its-probably-pointless-but/483711/290 "2009-02-07T19:15:43Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So you pick and choose from all versions, and if you can’t justify your beliefs using any of those, you just make it up. In a moment **kanicbird** will reply that he does not pick and choose, that he follows the true and literal word of the gospel, that anyone who does not agree with him is fooled by the enemy. He may use the phrase “has scales over their eyes.” He’ll say that his deity is loving, kind, gentle, and good, and only condemns billions of souls to hell to better demonstrate his lovingkindness and gentlegoodness. He’ll claim that all the Old Testament stories of rape, murder, genocide, and oppression are somehow morally distinct from crimes committed by Muslims or other persons he calls “demon-possessed.” He may even compare himself to a sheep and the rest of us to goats. That last remark will be the most apt one. We are goats, you see, but he’s not a sheep: he’s a troll. I don’t mean that he’s necessarily insincere (though I think he is); I mean that he’s doing nothing but trying to provoke us. The incredible inanity of his discourse, the insipidity of his arguments, his utter imperviousness to logic, evidence, justice, or mercy should make that clear. Unfortunately he’s one of those trolls Sauron magically engineered to be resistant to sunlight; thus, though he’s incapable of doing anything but parroting the same four basic words, he won’t turn to stone. But you can just walk away from him. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanicbird-yeah-its-probably-pointless-but/483711/291 "2009-02-07T19:18:11Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > This is objectively wrong. Allah just means “God” and Muslims adore the same God as Christians do. You might not agree with their interpretation but it is the same entity. The major difference is that God brings people to His Son Jesus, Allah leads people away. Big difference, Different god. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanicbird-yeah-its-probably-pointless-but/483711/292 "2009-02-07T19:29:55Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > The major difference is that God brings people to His Son Jesus, Allah leads people away. Big difference, Different god. I do not need to be led. I am still confused regarding your denomination. Allow me to rephrase the question, much like Roy in OOTS would do: You seem to follow a very particular set of beliefs. Does you belief system have a more commonly applied name, by which people who are not members might recognize your beliefs among many other, possibly incorrect interpretations? If I wished to know more of your beliefs from someone other than yourself or the bible, how would I go about learning more? Are there any books that are not the bible that you might recommend to those of us interested in learning more? Do you attend a church/meeting or similar in real life? What do the other people there call these meetings. Do they use a phrase to describe their beliefs? Please note that ‘The Way’ or ‘The Truth’ is not very helpful, because, while perhaps accurate in your case, they are widely applied, and not helpful to someone who wishes to know more. Alternatively, are the views expressed here simply derived from your intense and personal bible study, plus or minus divine inspiration? ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanicbird-yeah-its-probably-pointless-but/483711/293 "2009-02-07T20:01:22Z")
Have you, **Kanicbird** , ever taken LSD? A lot of LSD? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanicbird-yeah-its-probably-pointless-but/483711/294 "2009-02-07T20:07:22Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > You seem to follow a very particular set of beliefs. Does you belief system have a more commonly applied name, by which people who are not members might recognize your beliefs among many other, possibly incorrect interpretations? When asked I usually say I am a follower of Lord Jesus, that I don’t subscribe to any particular denomination, but attend worship in several including Pentacostal, RC, reformed, Presbyterian as lead. > [@](#): > > If I wished to know more of your beliefs from someone other than yourself or the bible, how would I go about learning more? Are there any books that are not the bible that you might recommend to those of us interested in learning more? The Bible and prayer would be the primary way, what book, people or other sources would be who or what God sends into your life. One such book He has used w/ me is Hinds Feet in High Places. > [@](#): > > Do you attend a church/meeting or similar in real life? What do the other people there call these meetings. Do they use a phrase to describe their beliefs? Please note that ‘The Way’ or ‘The Truth’ is not very helpful, because, while perhaps accurate in your case, they are widely applied, and not helpful to someone who wishes to know more. Some is answered above. People usually use the denomination to describe their beliefs, but they usually only attend that one church. > [@](#): > > Alternatively, are the views expressed here simply derived from your intense and personal bible study, plus or minus divine inspiration? Personal study of the Word along with prayer is a big part of it. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanicbird-yeah-its-probably-pointless-but/483711/295 "2009-02-07T20:21:17Z")
> [@Ensign\_Edison](#): > > I can’t speak for anyone else, but when I talk to kanicbird I do so in the hopes that the questions he can only answer with further insanities will plant seeds of doubt in more moderate believers. It’s part of what worked for me. Yeah, that’s why I bother at all with these types as well. Not doing it as much as I used to, though. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanicbird-yeah-its-probably-pointless-but/483711/296 "2009-02-07T21:04:10Z")
Thank you for the explanation **Kanicbird**. Now I can state my objections to the viewpoint you seem to espouse. If your religious beliefs are based on a) the bible, and specifically several differing translations of the bible, and b) other books helping to interpret the bible and c) where your personal revelations from god lead you. Then I really don’t see how you can be so dismissive of other beliefs, other revelations and other opinions, first regarding christianity, and secondly regarding other religions. You don’t really have any other yardstick than your own revelation, kind of a ‘my revelation is my cite’ situation. If I do exactly what you do - read the bible, read books, go to a lot of churches and get direct guidance from god - but come up with different answers \*- then my revelation is at least as valid and authoritative as yours by any external standard, and superior from my point of view. In which case, why should I talk about it with you, or you with me? - why yes, for those of you playing along on the home game, this is how I became a buddhist. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2009, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanicbird-yeah-its-probably-pointless-but/483711/297 "2009-02-07T21:16:33Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > Then I really don’t see how you can be so dismissive of other beliefs, other revelations and other opinions, first regarding christianity, and secondly regarding other religions. You don’t really have any other yardstick than your own revelation, kind of a ‘my revelation is my cite’ situation. If I do exactly what you do - read the bible, read books, go to a lot of churches and get direct guidance from god - but come up with different answers \*- then my revelation is at least as valid and authoritative as yours by any external standard, and superior from my point of view. In which case, why should I talk about it with you, or you with me? > > - why yes, for those of you playing along on the home game, this is how I became a buddhist. The difference is I am following the Word of God and seeking Him how He instructs. The Word is the ultimate source, not other books. Your viewpoint is assured valid ONLY if it agrees with the Word - this is what God instructs. My viewpoint is assured valid ONLY if it agrees with the Word - this is what God instructs. If your viewpoint contradicts the Word it is invalid, If my viewpoint contradicts the Word it is invalid. It is the only truth mankind can be assured is 100% true. Now I didn’t believe that at first, I came to Jesus seeking him and trying to make sense of things like demons, the flood, etc. The more I seek the more He reveals that He means exactly what He says, and the more it makes sense that it how God has to be. If 2 believers come up with 2 different interpretations God has a procedure for it and is OK with it. I am talking about it here because someone here dragged me into the pit, where we are sometimes called to go. As for why you are talking with me, I suggest you ask one of your (non) gods about it because there must be a reason. As for differing versions of scriptures, that is irrelevant, as long as the translation attempt is honest the Word will talk to our hearts regardless of the words used in scripture. ---
**Author:** ![rolandgunslinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cdc98d/32.png) [@rolandgunslinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rolandgunslinger)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanicbird-yeah-its-probably-pointless-but/483711/298 "2009-02-08T00:47:59Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > In a moment **kanicbird** will reply that he does not pick and choose, that he follows the true and literal word of the gospel, that anyone who does not agree with him is fooled by the enemy. He may use the phrase “has scales over their eyes.” He’ll say that his deity is loving, kind, gentle, and good, and only condemns billions of souls to hell to better demonstrate his lovingkindness and gentlegoodness. He’ll claim that all the Old Testament stories of rape, murder, genocide, and oppression are somehow morally distinct from crimes committed by Muslims or other persons he calls “demon-possessed.” He may even compare himself to a sheep and the rest of us to goats. > > That last remark will be the most apt one. We are goats, you see, but he’s not a sheep: he’s a troll. I don’t mean that he’s necessarily insincere (though I think he is); I mean that he’s doing nothing but trying to provoke us. The incredible inanity of his discourse, the insipidity of his arguments, his utter imperviousness to logic, evidence, justice, or mercy should make that clear. Unfortunately he’s one of those trolls Sauron magically engineered to be resistant to sunlight; thus, though he’s incapable of doing anything but parroting the same four basic words, he won’t turn to stone. > > But you can just walk away from him. He’s no more a troll than certain other members of this board and you know it. And it seems that people here on this board are actually trying to provoke **Kanicbird** into a meltdown and are failing miserably. He’s sticking to his guns. I admire that. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanicbird-yeah-its-probably-pointless-but/483711/299 "2009-02-08T01:12:57Z")
I have no desire to provoke him into a meltdown. His comments to **Attack from the 3rd dimension** , however, were absolutely disgusting. “MINE come from The Word. YOUR beliefs are false.” In other words, somehow, he has special knowledge, simply because he believes. The problem there is that most people believe that THEIR religious beliefs are the TRUE beliefs. And that everyone elses’ are false. So why is **Kanicbird** so sure? And the whole comment about demons is disgusting. This all started in a thread where **Crafter\_Man** told us about his in-laws scaring his kids with stories about demons and hellfire-which **Kanicbird** approved of. That’s sick. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanicbird-yeah-its-probably-pointless-but/483711/300 "2009-02-08T01:27:38Z")
We need some more interesting threads around here. Pitting a fanatic has now stretched to 300 posts? Take a breath, step away from your keyboards. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanicbird-yeah-its-probably-pointless-but/483711.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanicbird-yeah-its-probably-pointless-but/483711.md?page=16)