# Kansas Court Buggers Justice **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 2, 2004, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-court-buggers-justice/227226 "2004-02-02T21:35:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-court-buggers-justice/227226/41 "2004-02-04T23:38:00Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > We’re talking here about teens willingly giving and receiving blow jobs. Adult predators, charges of NAMBLA membership and whatnot are Red Herrings and ludicrous. I’d demand an apology except that I don’t respect the poster enough to care. I care. For the record: It was you who was the original bomb-thrower, accusing me of being _one dumb fucker with perhaps the worst case of internalized homophobia (you)'ve ever witnessed_. I consider any sexual contact between minors and adults deviant, unnatural and criminal. It has absolutely nothing to do the sex of the parties involved. You had your panties in such a knot you made the large stretch of linking my definition of child molestation to homosexual sex.If you’ll retract your homophobia comment and cna honestly refute at least 2 sentences in the following mission statement, I’ll write a long & heartfelt apology next time I’m logged on: > [@](#): > > Pederasty, like homosexuality, has existed, and exists, in all societies that have ever been studied. Homoeroticism is an ubiquitous feature of human experience, as even efforts to repress it confirm. Men and youths have always been attracted to each other, and, like homosexuality in general, their love is irrepressible. > > Our goal is to end the extreme oppression of men and boys in mutually consensual relationships by: > > 1. building understanding and support for such relationships; > 2.educating the general public on the benevolent nature of man/boy love; > 3.cooperating with lesbian, gay, feminist, and other liberation movements; > 4.supporting the liberation of persons of all ages from sexual prejudice and oppression. > > We are working to change public perceptions and laws about consensual sexual relationships between adults and minors. We believe that any child, regardless of age, should have the right to say “yes” or “no” to any person.,No child is harmed by any consensual sexual experience, but children are harmed by society’s condemnation and persecution of their bodily pleasures. > > Children need more than just sexual freedom. Denial of sexual pleasure can inflict severe and lasting pain. It is not the proper role of the state to attempt to enforce private personal morality, nor to “protect” children from themselves by denying them exposure to homoerotic or other sexual pleasure ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-court-buggers-justice/227226/42 "2004-02-04T23:41:58Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > I do apoligize, **DB** - I was reacting to the quoted text entirely out of context. It’s an attitude that drives me up the wall, and verily my knee did jerk. No worries, Larry. I won’t respond properly tonight since I’ve been procrastinating too, although in my case “company” is a short paper on XML pattern matching so I feel justified :). ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2004, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-court-buggers-justice/227226/43 "2004-02-05T00:12:52Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Of course he was the same age as I so I guess I’m a serial rapist myself by your lights. No, because most states, Kansas included, do not make it a crime if the people having sex with each other are within a certain age of each other. Statutory rape in Kansas happens if the victim is 14 to 16 and the perpetrator is 18 or over. The victim simply, legally, cannot consent. But if they’re both underage and both within a certain age of each other (2 years for Kansas I believe), it is not illegal. Thus, a 16 year old could legally have sex with a 14 year old. I suppose that technically, you can try to make an argument you and this other person were serially raping each other, but you really weren’t. You both lacked the ability to consent. No, it probably doesn’t make sense to you. It’s the way the law works. A complete defense to statutory rape is to be married to a victim at the time the act was committed. How can the person consent to marriage if he or she can’t consent to sex? I don’t know. I really don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2004, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-court-buggers-justice/227226/44 "2004-02-05T14:46:33Z")
> [@JohnBckWLD](#): > > I consider any sexual contact between minors and adults deviant, unnatural and criminal. Except that’s not what happened. An 18 year old is not an adult. You know what, **John** , I’m not even going to address your quote from NAMBLA directly. I’ll not apologize because you’re still trying to imply that I support NAMBLA because I think it’s outrageous that a mentally-retarded 18 year old boy is given an 18 year sentence for giving another kid a blowjob. Your apology would be as worthless as your opinion. Two teen aged boys willingly trading blowjobs is not molestation. It is not pedeophilia. It destroys no lives and wrecks no families. It _may_ be inappropriate but should not be criminal. In fact I’d wager the prosecution of this case has caused far more harm than the hummer did. I’m sorry for whatever in your life is causing you to react so irrationally towards Limon. Get therapy for it. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2004, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-court-buggers-justice/227226/45 "2004-02-05T15:27:40Z")
**Enderw24** It’s also a crime if the person is 16 or over, which is “age of consent”, but their lover is more than 4 years older than they are. They can only consent to having sex with someone 4 years older (exactly) or less than they are, until they reach age 18, which is considered adulthood. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2004, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-court-buggers-justice/227226/46 "2004-02-05T15:44:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Where did you get that idea? I absolutely agree that there is a difference between the two, which is why I said I supported a Romeo & Juliet law, or a Romeo & Samson law. Right? Paging **gobear** for a response. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2004, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-court-buggers-justice/227226/47 "2004-02-05T17:28:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Paging **gobear** for a response. I’ll give you a response. You _have_ convinced me that you’re not personally a bigot. So I apologize for intemperately calling you a bigot. However, I still believe your strict constructional/orginal intent interpretation of the Constitution is wrong and, in practice, supports bigotry. Do you think an 18 year sentence in this case violates the 8th Amendment? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2004, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-court-buggers-justice/227226/48 "2004-02-05T18:06:43Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > I’ll give you a response. You _have_ convinced me that you’re not personally a bigot. So I apologize for intemperately calling you a bigot. However, I still believe your strict constructional/orginal intent interpretation of the Constitution is wrong and, in practice, supports bigotry. I appreciate the apology, **Homebrew** - thank you very much. > [@](#): > > Do you think an 18 year sentence in this case violates the 8th Amendment? Yes. Of course, I’m not the best guy to ask about it, because I believe a proper Eighth Amendment analysis, using the principles espoused in _Weems_ and _Robinson_, should invalidate the death penalty. Clearly, modern jurisprudence doesn’t agree. Still, the proportionality test of _Weems_ seems obvious here: an 18-year sentence for statutory sexual offense, with no force or coercion, is crazy. I think it’s very likely the sentence was motivated by the impermissible ick-factor that the crime involved homosexual sex, as evidence by the legislative acceptance of a lesser crime when the participants are of opposite sex. I would reverse and remand for re-sentencing. (This analysis is based on the facts as outlined above – if it turned out that the sentencing hearing revealed other relevant factors, uncharged bad acts, etc., then I might change my mind). - Rick ---
**Author:** ![FilmGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@FilmGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FilmGeek)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2004, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-court-buggers-justice/227226/49 "2004-02-05T19:00:59Z")
This isn’t the most unbiased newspaper in the country, but here’s another article on Limon’s case. [http://www.pitch.com/issues/2004-01-22/feature.html/1/index.html](http://www.pitch.com/issues/2004-01-22/feature.html/1/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2004, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-court-buggers-justice/227226/50 "2004-02-05T19:34:41Z")
> [@FilmGeek](#): > > This isn’t the most unbiased newspaper in the country, but here’s another article on Limon’s case. > > [Pitch | Collaborative presentation software for modern teams](http://www.pitch.com/issues/2004-01-22/feature.html/1/index.html) Thanks for the link, **FilmGeek**. Of interest is this tidbit: > [@](#): > > Kline is referring to Limon’s two prior convictions in juvenile court, both for having sex with people under the age of sixteen. Both crimes occurred on the same day seven years ago, when Limon was fourteen. The court records are sealed because they involve juveniles, so it’s impossible to know the details of what occurred and with whom. Oh yeah, he’s a predator :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![culture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/958977/32.png) [@culture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/culture)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2004, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-court-buggers-justice/227226/51 "2004-02-05T19:48:54Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > You are seriously obtuse. When your opinions equate homosexuality with deviance or being “unnatural”, when you support biggoted laws that discriminate based on sexual orientation, when you use derogatory language, when you call me unfit to be a parent, when you say I can’t be trusted to be a Big Brother or Scout Leader, then I will point out the simple fact that you are a bigot. Let’s see: Would I let a heterosexual adult who believes that sex between an 18 year old male is 14 year old female is ok around my daughter? How about 18.99 and 14.01? No way in hell! You are a pervert, and I would not let you in the same building as my son. Let me be clear: You are an unfit parent, and could not be trusted to be a Big Brother or Boy Scout Leader. I hope you are none of the three. As hard as it may be for you to understand, this has nothing to do with your sexual orientation. Until today, I though the Boy Scout’s position on homosexuals was pathetic. Now I wonder that maybe you are the only one they ever met. No, it is still pathetic, and so are you. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2004, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-court-buggers-justice/227226/52 "2004-02-05T20:24:33Z")
His two previous convictions were for having sex with people (roughly) his own age while he was 14? Hurrah, I’m a serial rapist after all! What a fine country we live in, when a retarded kid’s participation in a daisy chain gets him labeled a “sexual predator.” ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2004, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-court-buggers-justice/227226/53 "2004-02-05T20:54:31Z")
Anyone got any Tilex? I seem to have a little mildew culture growing in my drain. You sure like to label people as “unfit parents”. As with the previous case, you’ve got your head up your ass this time. I am an excellent father. If you don’t believe me, just ask my son. I’ll say it again. Consensual sexual relations between 18 and 14 year olds may be inappropriate but should not be felonies that result in the older kid spending 18 years in prison and having to register as sex offender. If you’re over 20, then certainly it should be heavily sanctioned. But for two people who can be in high school at the same time, it’s absurd. ---
**Author:** ![culture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/958977/32.png) [@culture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/culture)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2004, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-court-buggers-justice/227226/54 "2004-02-05T21:43:52Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > Anyone got any Tilex? I seem to have a little mildew culture growing in my drain. You sure like to label people as “unfit parents”. As with the previous case, you’ve got your head up your ass this time. I am an excellent father. If you don’t believe me, just ask my son. > > I’ll say it again. Consensual sexual relations between 18 and 14 year olds may be inappropriate but should not be felonies that result in the older kid spending 18 years in prison and having to register as sex offender. If you’re over 20, then certainly it should be heavily sanctioned. But for two people who can be in high school at the same time, it’s absurd. Well, fortunately for me, given that my Karma took such a deserved hit last time, I actually read all the post this time. First, I’ll agree that this is only opinion. You have yours, I have mine. There is no cosmic law involved here. Second, an 18 year sentence may very well be inappropriate in this case (I do not know the facts well enough to comment one way of the other, and I have already learned my lesson thank you Straight Dope). However, I feel good that the court of public opinion is on my side (this does not always mean you are right, but more often than not it does). Sex between 14 and 18 year olds is wrong on many levels. There is too much difference in education, power and maturity. To suggest that it is merely inappropriate, like farting at the dinner table, makes you sound, well, silly. This sort of thing is illegal, and I hope it stays that way. So does most of the rest of America. I would like to know if you would have a problem with your son, when he is 18, having sex with a 14 year old girl? How about your 14 year old daughter with an 18 year old man? How about your 14 year old daughter with your 18 year old son (I mean, it is consensual, what is the problem?) Are you actually listening to yourself? I am curious, have you ever worked with sexually abused kids or teen parent (I say parent b/c there is rarely more than one. 95% of the time the boy off with the next hoochy by the time the prenency is known). If not, I suggest a turn. It might change some of your opinions. If you have, and carry your present opinions, I am even more appalled than I am already. Lastly, just b/c your son says you are a good parent does not make it so. I have seen children from home-brew porno films who thought there parents were the greatest thing since sliced bread. I don’t know you, maybe overall you are a great parent, maybe would even be pals, who knows, but your posting in this thread make you look very out-of-touch. In my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2004, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-court-buggers-justice/227226/55 "2004-02-07T22:23:01Z")
> [@](#): > > This coming from someone whose monthly credit cards statement is probably cluttered with charges from [boysgettingplowed.com](http://boysgettingplowed.com) and [teensweets.org](http://teensweets.org). Do me a favor, at your next NAMBLA meeting, tell your perverted cohorts to eat shit til they choke on it. **JohnBckWLD** , do not call someone a pedophile without proof. Do not even INSINUATE that someone is a pedophile. Lynn For the Straight Dope [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-court-buggers-justice/227226.md?page=2)