# Kansas to Vote on Constitutional Amendment regarding Abortion **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 26, 2022, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-to-vote-on-constitutional-amendment-regarding-abortion/968589 "2022-07-26T13:39:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2022, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-to-vote-on-constitutional-amendment-regarding-abortion/968589/81 "2022-08-06T21:29:34Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > And no, I’m not suggesting tax Catholics because of their position. I would have thought _any_ charities that spend money on political campaigns would lose their charitable status ? I must be wrong. You are wrong. 😉 > **[Political Campaign Activities - Risks to Tax-Exempt Status](https://www.councilofnonprofits.org/running-nonprofit/governance-leadership/political-campaign-activities-risks-tax-exempt-status)** > > In return for its favored tax-status, a 501(c)(3) charitable nonprofit, foundation, or religious organization promises the federal government that it will not engage in “political campaign activity.” _In return for its favored tax-status, a charitable nonprofit promises the federal government that it **will not engage in “political campaign activity** ” and if it does, IRS regulations mandate that the charitable nonprofit will **lose its tax-exempt status.** This prohibition against political campaign activity (defined as “supporting or opposing a candidate for public office”) is SEPARATE from lobbying or legislative activities, which charitable nonprofits ARE permitted to engage in, although knowing the rules is important, as limitations apply._ But this issue should be in a separate thread, methinks. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2022, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-to-vote-on-constitutional-amendment-regarding-abortion/968589/82 "2022-08-06T21:48:43Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Mot to mention, treating one church different just because it supported the 'wrong side" of an issue is both a legal and moral violation of the Bill of Rights. Would you like some more straw for your man? Nobody has suggested taxing one church because it supported one particular side. This is an idea of your own manufacture. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2022, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-to-vote-on-constitutional-amendment-regarding-abortion/968589/83 "2022-08-07T00:03:50Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > If the Catholic Church is going to be getting involved in politics, maybe it’s time to start taxing the sh\*t out of them. And remember- the whole idea behind many Non-profits is to promote a political agenda- Greenpeace, MADD, Sierra Club, Green Tech action fund, and so forth. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2022, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-to-vote-on-constitutional-amendment-regarding-abortion/968589/84 "2022-08-07T00:37:00Z")
Are they charities? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-to-vote-on-constitutional-amendment-regarding-abortion/968589/85 "2022-08-08T04:38:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > o promote a political agenda- Greenpeace, MADD, Being against drunk driving is a POLITICAL AGENDA now? What the actual fuck? ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-to-vote-on-constitutional-amendment-regarding-abortion/968589/86 "2022-08-08T04:48:15Z")
Being against drunk driving is not political. Lobbying governments to change legislation related to drunk driving is political. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-to-vote-on-constitutional-amendment-regarding-abortion/968589/87 "2022-08-08T16:27:44Z")
Is there a party that is pro-drunk driving? I have never seen drunk driving as a topic in a political ad. I see your point that it’s technically involving policy and therefore political, but does MADD get involved in elections much? How much of their budget is spent on elections vs marketing/awareness building. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-to-vote-on-constitutional-amendment-regarding-abortion/968589/88 "2022-08-08T17:28:28Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > I see your point that it’s technically involving policy and therefore political, but does MADD get involved in elections much? > **[MADD does not endorse any candidates for office](https://www.whig.com/archive/article/madd-does-not-endorse-any-candidates-for-office/article_00baade1-7ee3-56fb-bb25-9965de2f5068.html)** > > To The Herald-Whig: The letter in Friday's paper from Joe Hagstrom implied that Robert Nall's letter meant that Jon McCoy would not vigorously enforce DUI laws. I know that not ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-to-vote-on-constitutional-amendment-regarding-abortion/968589/89 "2022-08-08T19:11:08Z")
This is an analysis of one reason why the Kansas amendment proposal failed in rural, predominantly red counties in the state. > **[‘Let us live our life.’ Why the Kansas abortion amendment failed in some...](https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article264227486.html)** > > Some deeply Republican rural counties rejected the “Value Them Both” constitutional amendment. In others, support was softer than expected. > …residents received anti-amendment mailers sometimes once or twice a week, including some saying it could mean more government mandates. That phrasing was intentional on the part of opponents, who were tapping into lingering anger over early pandemic restrictions and mask mandates. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-to-vote-on-constitutional-amendment-regarding-abortion/968589/90 "2022-08-08T19:59:15Z")
Of course. They lobby politicians to change state laws on drinking age, BAC %, and many driving laws. Just because being against drunk driving is a generally a good thing, that doesn’t mean MADD doesn’t have a Political agenda. But that is not all MADD does. [Mothers Against Drunk Driving | Activist Facts](https://www.activistfacts.com/organizations/17-mothers-against-drunk-driving/#:~:text=Mothers%20Against%20Drunk%20Driving%20)(MADD,devastation%20caused%20by%20drunk%20drivers. _Unfortunately, this new “mission” has nothing to do with drunk driving; it is a manifestation of MADD’s deep-seated belief that any and all drinking before driving should be prohibited — regardless of whether it’s done responsibly and legally. Instead of focusing on repeat offenders and those who are too drunk to drive, the twenty-first-century MADD endorses higher beverage taxes, needlessly low drunk driving arrest thresholds, and roadblocks designed to frighten people out of social drinking. These tactics have failed to reduce drunk driving deaths, since they target social drinkers, not product abusers._ _In March 2004, MADD expanded its attack on responsible adults by calling for a “mandatory provision in every separation agreement and divorce decree that prohibits either parent from drinking and driving … with minor children in the vehicle.” Violating this provision, it argues, should result in penalties such as license suspension, jail, or even the “termination of parental rights.”_ > **[MADD: From well-intended advocacy to misguided bureacracy](https://hillsdalecollegian.com/2012/10/madd-from-well-intended-advocacy-to-misguided-bureacracy/)** > > No one wants to criticize Mothers Against Drunk Driving. The name of the group conjures up an image of noble women working to enact policies to ensure that their innocent children will not suffer harm because of intoxicated people behind the wheel.... Incidentally MADD fired Candace Lightner- the"Mother" in their name. Leadership is now slightly more male than female. > [@Airbeck](#): > > How much of their budget is spent on elections vs marketing/awareness building. The largest part of their budget (about 50%) goes to fundraising. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-to-vote-on-constitutional-amendment-regarding-abortion/968589/91 "2022-08-21T13:25:36Z")
As expected, the recount in Kansas is not going the way proponents wanted. In Johnson county, the difference was 54 votes. Overall, NO lost 18 votes, and YES lost 20. > **[Johnson County recount of abortion amendment vote finds difference of 54 votes](https://www.kmbc.com/article/johnson-county-kansas-recount-of-abortion-amendment-vote-finds-difference-of-54-votes/40947448)** > > Measure would have given the state's lawmakers more leverage to regulate abortions ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-to-vote-on-constitutional-amendment-regarding-abortion/968589/92 "2022-08-21T13:59:20Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And in any case- Corps are taxed on _Profits_. How much profit does a “non-profit” make? And gifts are excluded from Gross income. So, churches, even if taxed, would not pay any income tax. Mot to mention, treating one church different just because it supported the 'wrong side" of an issue is both a legal and moral violation of the Bill of Rights. The main tax that would be levied against a church is property tax, I’d think. You could also claim that providing pastors/priests a place to live is taxable income. Clergy are specifically exempt under the law. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-to-vote-on-constitutional-amendment-regarding-abortion/968589/93 "2022-08-21T15:59:05Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > As expected, the recount in Kansas is not going the way proponents wanted. 8 of the 9 counties have completed their recount. Sedgwick County (home of Wichita) announced yesterday that there was an issue with the recount and probably wouldn’t announce results until after the weekend. I downloaded data from the Kansas SOS website and a couple of county electoral sites and compiled it in a spreadsheet. Here’s what I’ve calculated thus far: The recount shows 13 fewer ‘Yes’ votes than the original count. The recount shows 19 fewer ‘No’ votes than the original count. So it’s a net gain of six votes in favor of the amendment. A six vote gain thus far, at a cost of $120k. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-to-vote-on-constitutional-amendment-regarding-abortion/968589/94 "2022-08-21T16:17:33Z")
With such a margin, did they really expect it to make any difference? ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-to-vote-on-constitutional-amendment-regarding-abortion/968589/95 "2022-08-21T16:19:41Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > With such a margin, did they really expect it to make any difference Of course not. What the recount will show, however, is that elections in this state are safe and secure. Which will make it hard for the sore losers in the future to claim voter/election fraud. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-to-vote-on-constitutional-amendment-regarding-abortion/968589/96 "2022-08-21T16:22:12Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > What the recount will show, however, is that elections in this state are safe and secure. Only to people who actually look at the results. Among those who don’t, what the recount will show is “Look how corrupted our electoral process is; it’s so bad that we needed a recount! Clearly, elections can’t be trusted, so let’s abolish voting”. Which is, of course, exactly why the recount was conducted. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-to-vote-on-constitutional-amendment-regarding-abortion/968589/97 "2022-08-21T16:24:18Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > What the recount will show, however, is that elections in this state are safe and secure. Which will make it hard for the sore losers in the future to claim voter/election fraud. Or, on the Lou Dobbs Postulate of Election Fraud™, it is just further proof of how deeply entrenched the fraud is in the system, making it impossible to find the proof that everyone knows is out there. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-to-vote-on-constitutional-amendment-regarding-abortion/968589/98 "2022-08-21T16:31:34Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > What the recount will show, however, is that elections in this state are safe and secure. Which will make it hard for the sore losers in the future to claim voter/election fraud. But that’s the genius of election denier logic – the very fact that the recount is showing so little deviation from the original counting is yet more proof that fraud occurred! Are we really supposed to believe that the vote was so perfect that a recount wouldn’t catch more errors? Seems like the powers that be are covering their tracks a little TOO well. . . ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-to-vote-on-constitutional-amendment-regarding-abortion/968589/99 "2022-08-21T19:50:30Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > The main tax that would be levied against a church is property tax, I’d think. You could also claim that providing pastors/priests a place to live is taxable income. Clergy are specifically exempt under the law. That is not a Federal law, it is state by state. And, it would have to apply to all religious and other non-profit establishments. The parsonage allowance is kinda weird. It is free from Income tax, but not social security, etc taxes. However, that follows the general tax rule of having a residence provided for you on site you need to be in. Would we tax the on-base housing for the Military? Or housing for rangers, etc in remote areas? However, I think there needs to be a limit. Some mega-churches go too far. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-to-vote-on-constitutional-amendment-regarding-abortion/968589/100 "2022-08-21T20:15:17Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Would we tax the on-base housing for the Military? Or housing for rangers, etc in remote areas? Those are different because they’re government employees. But I’m pretty sure that housing provided to most non-government employees is considered a taxable benefit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-to-vote-on-constitutional-amendment-regarding-abortion/968589.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kansas-to-vote-on-constitutional-amendment-regarding-abortion/968589.md?page=6)