# Kanye storms stage at Grammys, upset that Beck beat Beyonce for Album of the Year **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 9, 2015, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209 "2015-02-09T12:43:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![CGav8r](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@CGav8r](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CGav8r)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/101 "2015-02-10T15:35:51Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > I disagree as do most of the critics I have seen. Beyonce has a much greater impact on the culture, and will likely be relevant for longer than Beck. And I love Beck too. He is great, but they are not doing or trying to do the same thing. Beyonce is a musician and a superstar and Beck is a musician. All you’re saying is that Beyonce is very popular. Not sure that means much, other than people like her music; it certainly doesn’t mean she is more relevant or will retain any supposed relevancy (like, don’t folks agree that the string of Stevie Wonders’ albums between “Talking Book” and “Hotter Than July” have had more impact, than the album “Staying Alive”, despite the latter’s insane popularity at the time?) And remind me again which Grammy award is for “Best Superstar”? > [@](#): > > But it’s not just the opinion of yours or mine that matters here. And what exactly do you mean “PRODUCED”? I mean that her voice has had some modulation, and doesn’t sound the same as when it sprang forth from her beautiful lips. > [@](#): > > Sure, he is kinda dickish for doing that, but I think we all need to calm down here. We are talking about an etiquette breach at an awards show. This is not life or death. No one thinks it’s life and death - most folks are just pointing out he’s being an a-hole (especially with his comments, post-show about “artistry”…ugh!), and find the justifications are weak sauce. I agree on your earlier point, BTW. Kanye is a super-talented genius, but he needs to get outside his bubble sometimes, and needs a “No” man in his entourage to tell him to STFU occasionally. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/102 "2015-02-10T15:35:51Z")
> [@planetcory](#): > > Kanye is 1) a producer 2) a rapper 3) a singer. In that order. How good he is at 1) gives him a pass on 2) and a whole lot of leniency on 3). In addition, it is quite obvious that he uses auto-tune on some songs (like “Only One”) because he likes how it sounds. On “Four Five Seconds”, he obviously does not use auto-tune. FWIW, “808s and Hearbreaks” is one of my favorite albums. Kanye turns auto-tune into an instrument on it - I’m sure he started using it because he can’t really sing, but then he just liked how it sounded. I can kind of see some of the blacklash on Beyonce. She does’t produce, she likely writes little, etc. I would say that no one has been able to do what she does (not even her contemporaries who could afford her record engineers, producers, etc) indicates that she does have quite a bit of talent and musical savvy. One does not become Queen Bey by simply singing well - plenty of fantastic singers have had hits, but not many have had sustained careers. So if you dislike Kanye for saying stuff, take it out on Kanye and don’t make Beyonce collateral damage (besides the reason Kanye sticks up for Beyonce so much isn’t because he has a crush, but rather because Jay-Z is Kanye’s best friend). Regardless, in this discussion of Beck’s album vs. Beyonce’s album, how many instruments or writers Beck uses is somewhat irrelevant. Album of the Year honors not only the performer - it honors the performer, the producers, the recording engineers, etc. The award is for ALL the people who work on the album. In addition, I can’t take seriously anyone who thinks Kanye has no talent. The man is arguably the most talented musician of our generation - he is a lyricist, composer, and producer. Every single of his albums sound different from the other ones he’s released and most of them have changed the course of Hip Hop and R&B (and arguably, “Stronger” on Graduation helped give a push to the introduction of EDM into the mainstream in the US). He is usually ahead of his time, artistically. And for folks who say they’ve never heard a Kanye song they liked, I’d recommend you actually give his music a chance. Besides, everyone loves “Gold Digger”, so y’all be lying ;). ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/103 "2015-02-10T15:39:12Z")
> [@CGav8r](#): > > I agree on your earlier point, BTW. Kanye is a super-talented genius, but he needs to get outside his bubble sometimes, and needs a “No” man in his entourage to tell him to STFU occasionally. There has been an argument that perhaps Kanye’s bubble allows him to be a genius. His constant paranoia actually drives him much harder than if he didn’t have that… Normal people aren’t going to spend 5,000 hours producing a song (as Kanye supposedly did on “Power” - which showcases his immense skills as a producer as no other song, IMO) ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/104 "2015-02-10T15:57:06Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Normal people aren’t going to spend 5,000 hours producing a song (as Kanye supposedly did on “Power” - which showcases his immense skills as a producer as no other song, IMO) That would be nearly seven months of 24/7 round the clock, non-stop work. I like the song, but it ain’t THAT good. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/105 "2015-02-10T17:09:43Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Sorry, what did his wife do, and why is her supposedly fat ass relevant? I have decided that hatred for the Kardashians is 9 times out of 10 more reflective of the person hurling insults than anything they do. > > Sure, it’s fair to think they are overexposed, but they have literally done nothing that should command the scorn they receive. They are not beating one another up like the housewives of [insert city]. They are generally not vulgar or cruel to one another. They are mostly giving the public the amount of access they demand. It’s incredibly hard to stay famous and relevant, yet they have done it for a decade or so at this point. That fact alone demonstrates the unique talent they have. > > Regardless of how you or I feel about them, they are making a lot of people happy. I don’t necessarily think they are people I would want to hang out with, but the undeniable fact that lots of people admire them, that they are generally good role models, and that they make a lot of people happy should mean something here. They’re not telling people to not get vaccinated, or getting strung out on drugs. Why can’t you be happy for her/them rather than tearing Kim down for things like having an ass too big for your liking? > > Again, they are not marginal talents in the estimation of ANYONE who matters. There is not a serious music reviewer who agrees with that statement. Both have album(s) that consistently rank as the best of that year, and of the last 25 years or so. Marginal talents don’t have 20+ Grammys. What you are saying is just so nonsensical that it functions as a disqualifying statement regarding your ability to appraise musical talent. Jesus Christ, for one thing I don’t want bullshit to be shoved down my throat as good or even great. It’s just a big ol ball of shit that a bunch of assholes with money have decided this is culture. It’s not culture to worship people who fraternize with killers to be "relevant’ its just being a dick with mictophone. Moreover, Fat ass’ daddy was best friends with a murderer but as long as she’s wearing Versace she’s okay. West’s music is toilet water and won’t be remembered by anyone who knows where he stole it. Grammys are not about artistry they are about record sales and one thing these assholes know what to do is sell shit ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/106 "2015-02-10T17:57:47Z")
If there is any artist that will remembered 100 years from now from this generation, it’ll be Kanye West (Daft Punk is a possibility as well, I think). Everyone else will be toilet water by comparison. I don’t think there is anyone close to being as critical acclaimed as West. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/107 "2015-02-10T18:08:17Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > If there is any artist that will remembered 100 years from now from this generation, it’ll be Kanye West (Daft Punk is a possibility as well, I think). Everyone else will be toilet water by comparison. I don’t think there is anyone close to being as critical acclaimed as West. Remembered for being a complete and utter jackass. I’m sure more people have heard of his assholery than have listened to his music. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/108 "2015-02-10T18:27:28Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Remembered for being a complete and utter jackass. > > I’m sure more people have heard of his assholery than have listened to his music. Indeed. I couldn’t name one song he wrote, performed, or enjoyed listening to. I do know, however, he’s a bit of an ass. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/109 "2015-02-10T19:39:05Z")
> [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > I see West is sometimes credited with playing keyboards, but does he really do much besides pushing buttons on a computer and talking over the resulting music? Does Elton John do anything but press “buttons” on a piano? You act like there is some machine that just spits out great music. > [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > I’d like to invoke Poe’s law here. Since I think you might be serious, let me start by saying that “guilt by association” is unfair. So why do you think she was brought up at all? > [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > But since you went on at length defending the Kardashians, I have to say (though I thought it was obvious) that people who are wealthy and famous _for no reason at all_ deserve our contempt and scorn You literally cannot be famous for no reason at all, and even if you could, why should that make you deserving of contempt and scorn? > [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > but moreso our ire should be aimed at all the idiots who pay attention to them. “Role models”?!? Seriously? Please point out some things that make them worthy of being looked down upon? What exactly have they done wrong? > [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > Do you understand that things like the Grammys are scams? They were designed as large-scale, yearly publicity stunts, and serve to move tacky product to the masses. They are not scams in any sense of the word. > [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > This is the most important part, and the bolding is mine. You seriously question the judgment of others, when you yourself don’t even seem to know what over-production is, and why it’s so bad? Really? You have no idea? Asking for clarification on how someone used a term doesn’t imply a lack of understanding of the term. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/110 "2015-02-10T19:45:04Z")
> [@CGav8r](#): > > All you’re saying is that Beyonce is very popular. No, that is not the sum total of what I said. And no one thought “Stayling Alive” was going to stand the test of time. > [@CGav8r](#): > > I mean that her voice has had some modulation, and doesn’t sound the same as when it sprang forth from her beautiful lips. Some, but not more than any other musician. She actually has a great voice and is great live. > [@CGav8r](#): > > No one thinks it’s life and death - most folks are just pointing out he’s being an a-hole (especially with his comments, post-show about “artistry”…ugh!), and find the justifications are weak sauce. Someone in this very thread said they should shoot him the next time such a thing happens. I think the fact that people are overreacting has been effectively demonstrated. > [@CGav8r](#): > > I agree on your earlier point, BTW. Kanye is a super-talented genius, but he needs to get outside his bubble sometimes, and needs a “No” man in his entourage to tell him to STFU occasionally. Completely agree. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/111 "2015-02-10T19:51:59Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > Jesus Christ, for one thing I don’t want bullshit to be shoved down my throat as good or even great. There are literally hundreds of channels you can watch. It’s not hard to avoid Kanye or the Kardashians if you want to, so no one is shoving anything down your throat. > [@Andiethewestie](#): > > It’s just a big ol ball of shit that a bunch of assholes with money have decided this is culture. It’s not culture to worship people who fraternize with killers to be "relevant’ its just being a dick with mictophone. Can you bring a coherent message next time you respond? > [@Andiethewestie](#): > > Moreover, Fat ass’ daddy was best friends with a murderer but as long as she’s wearing Versace she’s okay. So she is loathsome because her dad was friends with OJ… like thousands of other people? How is what her dad did her fault? And why are you still talking about her ass? Are your looks relevant too? Why or why not? > [@Andiethewestie](#): > > West’s music is toilet water and won’t be remembered by anyone who knows where he stole it. Grammys are not about artistry they are about record sales and one thing these assholes know what to do is sell shit Well, if it were about only record sales, Beck would not have won. Regardless, you have made the irrelevance and ridiculousness of your appraisals clear. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/112 "2015-02-10T19:57:53Z")
Interestingly, Beck’s album has seen sales spike over [1300%](http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/kanye-west-just-boosted-becks-album-sales-by-more-than-1000-per-cent-10036812.html) post Kanye kerfuffle. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/113 "2015-02-10T20:16:03Z")
For the record, I don’t enjoy Kanye’s music at all. I think Beyoncé is very talenteted. I find some of her songs fun and catchy, while others aren’t my cup o’ tea. And I think Beck is a pretty amazing musical artist and I enjoy a lot of his work, even if not everything he does strikes me personally or emotionally. But my musical opinions aren’t really the point. Obviously many people disagree with me about Kanye, since he’s sold millions of records. It just makes Kanye’s remarks about “disrespecting artistry” all the more absurd. I don’t know how anybody can deny that Beck is truly an artist, whether you happen to enjoy his work or not. It doesn’t take much reading between the lines to realize that what he was really complaining about is that black people don’t win enough Grammys. Which is of course ridiculous, as he and Beyoncé, as someone pointed out upthread, have 41 between them. Does he think black people should win _all_ the Grammys? What I actually find really cool about Grammy night is seeing rockers, rappers, crooners, country and Latin artists, and more, all sharing the same stage and supporting each other. Except Kanye, I guess. If it isn’t his kind of music, it isn’t valid. I really hope that’s a minority opinion. TL;DR version: Yeah, Kanye’s a jackass. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/114 "2015-02-10T20:17:21Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > Interestingly, Beck’s album has seen sales spike over [1300%](http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/kanye-west-just-boosted-becks-album-sales-by-more-than-1000-per-cent-10036812.html) post Kanye kerfuffle. Could this have anything at all to do with the fact that it won the Album of the Year Grammy? ---
**Author:** ![JKilez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@JKilez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKilez)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/115 "2015-02-10T20:17:38Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > Interestingly, Beck’s album has seen sales spike over [1300%](http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/kanye-west-just-boosted-becks-album-sales-by-more-than-1000-per-cent-10036812.html) post Kanye kerfuffle. You mean [post Grammy win](http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2013/02/14/172035944/a-brief-history-of-the-grammy-sales-bump). ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/116 "2015-02-10T20:42:20Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Does Elton John do anything but press “buttons” on a piano? You act like there is some machine that just spits out great music. No, there are machines that just spit out crappy music. If you think that learning to play a piano is the same as clicking a mouse and/or stealing somebody else’s music over which you can talk rather than sing, you have no idea what you’re talking about. Beck is such an interesting example, because he’s demonstrated that, despite all the samples he’s known to use, he and his band are completely capable of writing/playing/singing/producing plenty of original, raw, genuine, real music. > [@](#): > > So why do you think she was brought up at all? Because it’s rather unsavory to associate so closely with such vapid exemplars of idiocy. > [@](#): > > You literally cannot be famous for no reason at all, and even if you could, why should that make you deserving of contempt and scorn? It’s called being [famous for being famous](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famous_for_being_famous), and it’s self-explanatory. > [@](#): > > Please point out some things that make them worthy of being looked down upon? What exactly have they done wrong? They do nothing worthy of notice, nothing at all, and yet millions of fools pay attention to them, when they could be spending time (and money!) on innumerable more worthy things. > [@](#): > > They are not scams in any sense of the word. That’s exactly what they are. Somebody came up with the idea of an awards show for films as a publicity gimmick, and the idea took off. They don’t measure anything of any worth, except the gullibility of anyone who takes them seriously. > [@](#): > > Asking for clarification on how someone used a term doesn’t imply a lack of understanding of the term. OK, so you know why bogus, fake-sounding mass-produced pseudo-musical product bothers some of us so much, particularly in this case, where this West jerk has the audacity to _repeatedly_ disrupt a moment in which someone more genuine took some of the spotlight? Also, I’m still pissed off that none of the coverage (unless I’ve missed it) seems to use [sic] marks to indicate West’s sub-English gibberish. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/117 "2015-02-10T20:56:27Z")
sub-English gibberish? I think you are getting reeaaly close to the line of racial offensiveness here. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/118 "2015-02-10T21:03:32Z")
I will share something I have learned over the years. Art is entirely subjective. I can find a piece of art to be brilliant and of great societal importance while others consider it meaningless dreck. And so it is with today’s music. I cannot comment on West or Beyonce because that music is not my cup of tea. Neither is Beck, really, but at least I have heard his music in the far flung days rock and roll. I have heard Beyonce’s voice and can agree that she is a gifted performer. There no question as to West’s or Beyonce’s talent as artists. What West needs to understand is that there is no question as to Beck’s either, and that reasonable people can disagree as to which artist put a better album in a given year. Because there is NO objective best. It’s all subjective. The voter’s liked Beck’s better. It was probably a close vote and the voters agonized over the choice. In the end, who gives a shit. It the fucking Grammys, for God’s sake. (_Oh, this album didn’t win the Grammy. I guess it’s a piece of shit and I shouldn’t like it!_) It’s Kanye that needs to _respect artistry_ and realize that other people can have it even he personally doesn’t like it. What a dick. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/119 "2015-02-10T21:13:31Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > sub-English gibberish? I think you are getting reeaaly close to the line of racial offensiveness here. How so? It’s just as obnoxious in that song by Bread (one of the worst bands ever, and a bunch of white guys) that goes “Baby I’m-a want you.” What?!?! ---
**Author:** ![Gerald\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Gerald\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gerald_II)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2015, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/120 "2015-02-10T21:20:25Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Sure, it’s fair to think they are overexposed, but they have literally done nothing that should command the scorn they receive. They are not beating one another up like the housewives of [insert city]. They are generally not vulgar or cruel to one another. They are mostly giving the public the amount of access they demand. I think some critics of Kim Kardashian, and the clan as a whole, go too far with the scorn. However I think a lot of the criticism is warranted. Just because you give people what they want doesn’t alleviate any kind of social responsibility others may feel you have. For example, it’s obvious that Kendall Jenner has had lip injections and she’s not even legally an adult yet. The mother encouraged her daughter Kim to pose for Playboy. > [@](#): > > It’s incredibly hard to stay famous and relevant, yet they have done it for a decade or so at this point. That fact alone demonstrates the unique talent they have. Yes and no. The unique talent is based upon Kim’s looks and who she aligns herself with. So yeah, I do give her and her family credit for being very savvy with the media and how they market themselves. However, it’s done at a very big expense in my opinion. Kim only got a reality show because of a sex tape that leaked, which coincidentally mirrored the same sequence of events that led her former friend Paris Hilton to obtain \*her \*reality show. Maybe I’m being biased because of the circumstances. For example, would I also criticize a supermodel for making a career off her looks? But then again, I have a great deal of disdain for most of these reality shows where the people exploit themselves and their families for money. > [@](#): > > Regardless of how you or I feel about them, they are making a lot of people happy. I don’t necessarily think they are people I would want to hang out with, but the undeniable fact that lots of people admire them, that they are generally good role models, and that they make a lot of people happy should mean something here. They are not good role models though. Kim got famous for having a sex tape she made leak, she posed for Playboy, and then posed nude for some other magazine, not too mention she’s had cosmetic surgery and she’s still very young. The mom has had cosmetic surgery. Kourtney has had breast implants. Kylie Jenner is only 17 and now she’s gotten cosmetic surgery. People, young girls in particular, already place way too much importance on looks because of society and the media, to the point that people are hurting themselves physically and mentally by getting breast implants, butt implants, leg implants, collagen and botox injections, and all kinds of other unnecessary surgeries. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209.md?page=7)