# Kanye storms stage at Grammys, upset that Beck beat Beyonce for Album of the Year **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 9, 2015, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209 "2015-02-09T12:43:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/161 "2015-02-11T02:53:05Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I’m about halfway through listening to My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy. First though, this is the most vanilla “dark twisted fantasy” I’ve ever encountered. Second though, far too many stereotypical “look at my money” rap lyrics, and too much boasting about being a rather unpleasant person. And he’s a mediocre rapper at best, even with my rather limited knowledge I can tell that. > > As for his production skills, there’s good and bad. He’s certainly extremely good at picking samples and arranging them into a whole, mixing multiple styles into a coherent and sometimes unexpected whole. However, for something supposedly dark and twisted, I was expecting a _lot_ more edginess. So far, only “Monster” and the weird, but rather brilliant, instrumental ending to “Runaway” come close. > > The biggest problem as a producer, though, is the complete lack of dynamic range on the album. Not unexpected, it being something from the last 15 years, but rather sad that even the supposedly best producer out there won’t use one of the most important tools he has available. > > Overall, a slick, well made, not overly interesting pop album, with enough hip-hop attitude to give it some superficial edge, for want of a better term, but not enough to keep it from the mainstream. I can’t help but wonder how much better his music would be if he didn’t so obviously crave fame, money and attention. > > All that said, I’ve listened to nearly an hour of it without wanting to turn it off, which is a lot longer than the majority of modern pop artists would get. I also am giving it a cursory first look. I liked “Power” even if it sounds like something on a FIFA videogame…“Monster” is interesting. But as said elsewhere…a 100 artists and producers worked on it. and _he’s_ the genius? Does that make him the Robert Evans of producers? I dunno…but he’s no Prince. Hell, I don’t think he’s even Don Was. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/162 "2015-02-11T03:02:16Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I really don’t understand how somebody who enjoys music could listen to something like _My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy_ and _not_ find it an incredible album, whether they enjoy hip hop or not. But different strokes, and all that, I guess. Some people like to listen to music and not rhyming fluff. Every time a song on that album gets a little musical headwind it gets smacked down with mind numbing poetry. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/163 "2015-02-11T03:08:13Z")
Well…so far…I’d take the weakest track off the “Judgement Night” soundtrack over anything I’ve heard on _My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy_ Edit: Okay, maybe not the _weakest_ ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/164 "2015-02-11T03:08:40Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > Not that I care about any of these people (and they certainly don’t care about me) but…(if true), this is a bit telling: > > Beyoncé album: 27 songwriters and 19 producers. > Kanye album: 49 songwriters and 25 producers. > Beck album: 1 songwriter and 1 producer. Except that this is actually not [true](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_Phase). > [@](#): > > Morning Phase: Beck Hansen, producer; Tom Elmhirst, David Greenbaum, Florian Lagatta, Cole Marsden, Greif Neill, Robbie Nelson, Darrell Thorp, Cassidy Turbin & Joe Visciano, engineers/mixers; Bob Ludwig, mastering engineer Not sure where you got your info from. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/165 "2015-02-11T03:18:51Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > It doesn’t take much reading between the lines to realize that what he was really complaining about is that black people don’t win enough Grammys. Which is of course ridiculous, as he and Beyoncé, as someone pointed out upthread, have 41 between them. Does he think black people should win _all_ the Grammys? His gripe is not about the number, but rather that Black artists are relegated to certain categories. An analogous situation is how comedies and comedic performances are less respected at the oscars. > [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > No, there are machines that just spit out crappy music. If you think that learning to play a piano is the same as clicking a mouse and/or stealing somebody else’s music over which you can talk rather than sing, you have no idea what you’re talking about. Have you ever tried to make a beat or create music? Mastering that craft is just as hard as playing an traditional instrument. > [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > Because it’s rather unsavory to associate so closely with such vapid exemplars of idiocy. So her being married to a guy you think is rude is reason for people to comment on her looks and call her a ho? > [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > It’s called being [famous for being famous](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famous_for_being_famous), and it’s self-explanatory. Which, again, is a nonsense phrase (and different from what you said). Every person listed there has a clear reason they are/were famous. > [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > They do nothing worthy of notice, nothing at all, and yet millions of fools pay attention to them, when they could be spending time (and money!) on innumerable more worthy things. Who are you to tell people what they should spend their money on? > [@Lemmytheseal2](#): > > Also, I’m still pissed off that none of the coverage (unless I’ve missed it) seems to use [sic] marks to indicate West’s sub-English gibberish. Maybe because almost no one agrees with your ridiculous contention. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/166 "2015-02-11T03:28:14Z")
I must admit that I thought black musicians dominated the Grammys and the charts these days. But chart-wise, I’m apparently stuck in 2011. These days looking at the Grammy nominations and Billboards top 100…there are an awful lot of crappy, derivative white performers. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/167 "2015-02-11T03:40:42Z")
> [@Gerald\_II](#): > > However I think a lot of the criticism is warranted. Just because you give people what they want doesn’t alleviate any kind of social responsibility others may feel you have What social responsibility does she have? It’s not as if any of them hold themselves out as paragons of virtue. > [@Gerald\_II](#): > > For example, it’s obvious that Kendall Jenner has had lip injections and she’s not even legally an adult yet. The mother encouraged her daughter Kim to pose for Playboy. Who cares? Why is getting lip injections or being in Playboy inherently bad? > [@Gerald\_II](#): > > Kim only got a reality show because of a sex tape that leaked, which coincidentally mirrored the same sequence of events that led her former friend Paris Hilton to obtain \*her \*reality show. First, Paris Hilton had a show deal before her tape. Second, there are dozens of starlets with sex tapes, and non including Hilton have created a media empire. Saying it was the only reason is unnecessarily dismissive. > [@Gerald\_II](#): > > Maybe I’m being biased because of the circumstances. For example, would I also criticize a supermodel for making a career off her looks? But then again, I have a great deal of disdain for most of these reality shows where the people exploit themselves and their families for money. I think you are being fairer than many, but still a bit unfair. As you said, few judge fashion models or actresses for posing naked. Do you ever hear people calling Taylor Swift a whore for dating multiple people in the spotlight? > [@Gerald\_II](#): > > They are not good role models though. Kim got famous for having a sex tape she made leak, she posed for Playboy, and then posed nude for some other magazine, not too mention she’s had cosmetic surgery and she’s still very young. First, the evidence that she wanted the tape to leak is scant. Second, why is any of that other stuff bad? Would I do it? No, but I don’t judge someone for doing it. > [@Gerald\_II](#): > > People, young girls in particular, already place way too much importance on looks because of society and the media. So someone in the spotlight shouldn’t address their “flaws” because society might get the wrong idea? Why does society get a vote on what someone else gets to do with their body? > [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Kanye sounds like a retard in his songs. Race has nothing to do with it. Stay Classy! [QUOTE=Steophan] No matter how talented Kanye may be, it’s clear that Beck could do everything that he could do, and much much more. [/QUOTE] Why are you so sure Beck can do something at a higher level and in a completely different style given he has never demonstrated such a talent? And I am not criticizing Beck, but the idea he can do what Kanye does is based on nothing. [QUOTE=Steophan] But maybe I’m wrong. If someone wants to link me to him playing live and improvising - and I have a fairly wide tolerance for “playing live”, mixing would count - then go for it. But someone who takes 5000 hours to make a 4 minute song is not a better musician that someone who takes 4 minutes to do so. [/QUOTE] Why does talking less time make you a better musician? And I am pretty sure 5000 hours was hyperbole. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/168 "2015-02-11T03:49:36Z")
Hold up, imma let you all finish in a second, but I just want to remind everyone that when Beck hit the scene (22 fucking years ago) he was seen as ‘groundbreaking’ and incredibly talented… So I don’t know where all this ‘Beck is just some random dude’ stuff is coming from. Just because he didn’t stay relevant as long as Kanye has doesn’t mean Beck isn’t incredibly talented. Also “Sea Change” is an amazing fucking album. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/169 "2015-02-11T03:57:01Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Hold up, imma let you all finish in a second, but I just want to remind everyone that when Beck hit the scene (22 fucking years ago) he was seen as ‘groundbreaking’ and incredibly talented… So I don’t know where all this ‘Beck is just some random dude’ stuff is coming from. > > Just because he didn’t stay relevant as long as Kanye has doesn’t mean Beck isn’t incredibly talented. > > Also “Sea Change” is an amazing fucking album. Completely agree. Beck is a genius too. ---
**Author:** ![Lemmytheseal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@Lemmytheseal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemmytheseal2)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/170 "2015-02-11T04:40:30Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Have you ever tried to make a beat or create music? Mastering that craft is just as hard as playing an traditional instrument. Like hell it is. There is absolutely a learning curve, but all the practice and care that, say, Rush or Dragonforce put into their instruments absolutely dwarfs all that required by the tools of overproduction. Tools like Auto-Tune tap into a market consisting of a great deal of laziness and entitlement. > [@](#): > > So her being married to a guy you think is rude is reason for people to comment on her looks and call her a ho? No, you’ve completely missed the point. It doesn’t help West’s case any that he associates so closely with a tribe of idiots. There are also no reasons to comment on Kim’s appearance or slut-shame her. If you’ve been paying attention, you will notice that I did neither. Instead, I’m annoyed at the fame and fortune that accrues to people like this, when they display utterly no reason for such a position of power and privilege. I’m far more annoyed at the public that pays such attention. > [@](#): > > Which, again, is a nonsense phrase (and different from what you said). Every person listed there has a clear reason they are/were famous. No, it’s quite unclear why someone should shoot to fame on account of anything the Kardashians have done, or even their associations. > [@](#): > > Who are you to tell people what they should spend their money on? I’m not qualified to do that exactly, but as a person with some modicum of taste and decency I can tell them not to pay any attention to the Kardashians, and anybody else they rope into their vulgar, pointless freak show. > [@](#): > > Maybe because almost no one agrees with your ridiculous contention. No, it got some traction on Twitter when I called attention to it, and quite frankly I am confident that plenty of people think it’s rather disgraceful for a grown man, born and raised in an English-speaking environment, to babble with double negatives, mysteriously missing verbs, and all the rest. That sort of thing reflects poorly on his intelligence, among other things, and yet many of the youth who for some reason look up to West will hear that degeneracy and (subconsciously) conclude that there is no reason to pursue erudition, since evidently a superstar like this doesn’t need it. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/171 "2015-02-11T05:27:57Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Except that this is actually not [true](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_Phase). > > Not sure where you got your info from. I qualified my post when I posted it and your refutation doesn’t exonerate West and his massive number of producers and song writers. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/172 "2015-02-11T06:14:52Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Except that this is actually not [true](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_Phase). > > Not sure where you got your info from. Wait, what are you talking about? He said Beck had one songwriter and one producer, and he did. Mixing/engineering, mastering, and producing are entirely different jobs, even if engineers sometimes also produce. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/173 "2015-02-11T06:15:41Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > I qualified my post when I posted it and your refutation doesn’t exonerate West and his massive number of producers and song writers. Not only that, but it looks like wikipedia is missing a semicolon. [Allmusic](http://www.allmusic.com/album/morning-phase-mw0002607867/credits) lists Beck as the only producer, and the other persons in that list are engineers. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/174 "2015-02-11T06:53:12Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Wait, what are you talking about? He said Beck had one songwriter and one producer, and he did. Mixing/engineering, mastering, and producing are entirely different jobs, even if engineers sometimes also produce. Technically a good portion of those folks who are “producers” on Kanye West’s albums are engineers or do mixing or mastering (or even photography, marketing, and A&R). West likely has around 10 producers (including himself) who assist on the album. FWIW, the songwriter numbers are a bit misleading as well for artists who use samples. For example, in the song “Hell of a Life” on MBDTF, West uses a highly-fuzzed up guitar riff which is a sped up “Iron Man” riff from Black Sabbath - so one of the songwriters on that song? Ozzy Osbourne. (regardless, I don’t think it actually really shows all that much in the slightest - West tends to be the main producer the vast majority of the time, and is always the main songwriter on his songs - I don’t think anyone even comes close to claiming that other people write and produce his songs for him and he just gets up there and raps to stuff that has been premade) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Winkler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/82dd89/32.png) [@The\_Winkler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Winkler)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/175 "2015-02-11T07:08:10Z")
If it wasn’t for the tragedy that Americans worship a trained monkey who can ©rap curses into a microphone and pound his chest like a gorilla, this idiot would be where he belongs: in a prison rec yard. ---
**Author:** ![xander71](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/58f4c7/32.png) [@xander71](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xander71)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/176 "2015-02-11T09:54:03Z")
I think that may be a wee bit racist. ---
**Author:** ![planetcory](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/planetcory/32/1032_2.png) [@planetcory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/planetcory)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/177 "2015-02-11T12:11:11Z")
> [@xander71](#): > > I think that may be a wee bit racist. It’s never too far below the surface when the conversation is the ‘legitimacy’ of hip hop. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/178 "2015-02-11T13:04:27Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Why are you so sure Beck can do something at a higher level and in a completely different style given he has never demonstrated such a talent? And I am not criticizing Beck, but the idea he can do what Kanye does is based on nothing. It’s based on having listened to enough of Beck’s music to know that he’s a more talented producer, composer, singer, and arguably rapper than Kanye West. > [@](#): > > Why does talking less time make you a better musician? And I am pretty sure 5000 hours was hyperbole. Because performing a piece in one take displays more talent than performing it in thousands. And yes, I’m well aware that Kanye’s compositions don’t really lend themselves to one-take performances. All that means is that, unlike jazz music for example, on can’t listen to one of his recordings and judge the quality of the musicians. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/179 "2015-02-11T14:35:23Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Some people like to listen to music and not rhyming fluff. Every time a song on that album gets a little musical headwind it gets smacked down with mind numbing poetry. Well, that’s the thing. I actually like the music, but I also do like the rhymes. Rap is one of the few forms of music where I do pay attention to lyrics. Usually, lyrics are disposable to me. I tend to agree with **brickbacon** regarding sampling and putting together beats. I play several instruments and have a great interest in sampling and electronic music. Putting together a loop is fairly trivial. Doing it well, picking out good source material, and making something people will want to listen to is difficult, like anything else, in my opinion. I find it much easier to write a song than construct a loop or build a song on loops and samples I want to listen to, personally, but that’s because sampling and looping apparently is not a talent I have. But it’s not an “any idiot can do it well” type of deal. Far from it. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209/180 "2015-02-11T14:52:24Z")
**The Winkler** This comment is completely out of line for the Cafe Society forum. **Warning Issued** > [@The\_Winkler](#): > > If it wasn’t for the tragedy that Americans worship a trained monkey who can (c)rap curses into a microphone and pound his chest like a gorilla, this idiot would be where he belongs: in a prison rec yard. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-storms-stage-at-grammys-upset-that-beck-beat-beyonce-for-album-of-the-year/712209.md?page=10)