# Kanye West - what happened? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 2, 2022, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895 "2022-12-02T00:56:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/21 "2022-12-02T11:53:56Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > With both Kanye West and Herschel Walker, people have made a big show of declaring “he’s not well, he needs help” rather than “this is a very bad person”. Can’t he be both? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/22 "2022-12-02T12:05:08Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Can’t he be both? Yes, but that’s not the point. The point is that they’re bad people _independent of their mental illnesses_ and shouldn’t get a pass because of it. Excusing that sort of behavior only makes it worse. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/23 "2022-12-02T12:05:23Z")
Kanye’s twitter account got suspended last night. You know things are bad if Musk era twitter bans you. What I find weird is the specific nature of his off-the-rails behavior. Siding with racists and white nationalists, wearing “white lives matter” shirts. He reminds me of the old Chappelle Show sketch where Chappelle plays a blind Ku Klux Klan leader who doesn’t know he’s Black. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/24 "2022-12-02T12:08:39Z")
> [@solost](#): > > What I find weird is the specific nature of his off-the-rails behavior. Siding with racists and white nationalists, wearing “white lives matter” shirts. He reminds me of the old Chappelle Show sketch where Chappelle plays a blind Ku Klux Klan leader who doesn’t know he’s Black. It will be hard to see that sketch without thinking of Kanye. I mean, no history book or analysis of Kanye now can ever look back without this time being a big part of the focus. I feel like we are watching a downward spiral right now that may end very tragically for Kanye, though who will even be able to mourn him? It doesn’t help he has been a jerk for his entire celebrity life. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/25 "2022-12-02T12:14:40Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Today, he appeared on that Alex Jones show and announced he likes Hitler and Nazis. And he has been seen wearing “White Lives Matter” clothes and making many very strange statements, including anti-Semitic ones. The irony is that, once those people attained power and had no need or use for him anymore, they would get rid of him just like Hitler got rid of all the “sub-humans” he murdered. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/26 "2022-12-02T13:47:35Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Every fucking Nazi has a reason why they’re a fucking Nazi. That doesn’t change the fact that they’re fucking Nazis. [![](https://images.theconversation.com/files/153912/original/image-20170123-8062-1nr3t6t.jpg?auto=format&q=45&w=754) ](https://images.theconversation.com/files/153912/original/image-20170123-8062-1nr3t6t.jpg?auto=format&q=45&w=754) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![planetcory](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/planetcory/32/1032_2.png) [@planetcory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/planetcory)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/27 "2022-12-02T14:41:08Z")
I’m acquainted with people who knew him before he was famous. He’s always been a self-centered asshole. Fame, sycophancy, and mental decline just multiplied it by magnitudes. The Nazi, ‘White Lives Matter’ stuff, I attribute to contrarianism. 90-something percent of Black people align themselves against Republicans/the Right. Only a true genius can see beyond the veil of groupthink and declare himself an intelligent Free Thinker. /s That’s where a lot of these aggressively right wing Black folks come from. A narcissistic desire to diverge from the crowd. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/28 "2022-12-02T14:48:15Z")
> [@planetcory](#): > > That’s where a lot of these aggressively right wing Black folks come from. A narcissistic desire to diverge from the crowd. Maybe in part. A big part of it, however, is that he’s an asshole. These days assholes tend to gravitate to the right wing / Republican Party, regardless of race. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/29 "2022-12-02T15:07:09Z")
> [@OppositeKeith](#): > > he no doubt has talent I don’t think he does, but I haven’t listened to his music very much because…I don’t think he has much talent, musically. Could you post a link or two to his very finest display of musical genius, so I may judge whether I’ve judged him too quickly or on the basis of his less listenable material? I’ll be prepared to get on the “Ye is a genius” train if I’m wrong. It must be said that I don’t care for the genre generally (I’m old and white) but I’ll listen. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/30 "2022-12-02T15:11:42Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > Could you post a link or two to his very finest display of musical genius, so I may judge whether I’ve judged him too quickly or on the basis of his less listenable material? I don’t really think that someone who doesn’t like the genre would be a good judge of talent. OTOH, the people who do like the genre, and who give him lots of money because they enjoy his music, probably are a better judge. So, have the people who do like the genre given him lots of money? I’d say so. I don’t like his music or the genre in general, but I can recognize that he must have some level of talent, or people wouldn’t be throwing so much money at him. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/31 "2022-12-02T15:13:22Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > someone who doesn’t like the genre would be a good judge of talent. Probably right. But I’d appreciate a link or two just the same, if only to reassure myself that I haven’t dismissed this claim too quickly. I remember quite clearly my parents’ generational contempt for rock ‘n’ roll, which I tried to overcome by playing for them the Beatles’ most melodic, least rock-y, ballads. Didn’t work, but they got my point, that the music I liked wasn’t the complete garbage they liked to think it was. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/32 "2022-12-02T15:15:42Z")
I admit to not listening to much from the rap and hip-hop genre but I’m curious as to who he would compare with from earlier times. Is his music similar enough to Tupac and Notorious BIG that comparing their music would be a fair comparison? What about some of the artists from the old day who are still around, like Dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/33 "2022-12-02T15:28:13Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > But I’d appreciate a link or two just the same, if only to reassure myself that I haven’t dismissed this claim too quickly. I’d be the last person to ask, as all his stuff sounds like garbage to my old fuddy duddy ears. But, from people who _do_ like his music, here’s a ranking of his albums. > **[Kanye West's Albums, Ranked Worst to Best](https://www.complex.com/music/a/insanul-ahmed/kanye-west-albums-ranked-best-to-worst)** > > We’re ranking Kanye West’s discography, including ‘Donda,’ ‘The College Dropout,’ ‘Yeezus,’ and more. Here are his music albums, ranked from worst to best. I don’t like Taylor Swift either, but I hear there’s a lot of people who would say she is talented. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/34 "2022-12-02T15:42:04Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > > [@slicedalone](#): > > > > Could you post a link or two to his very finest display of musical genius, so I may judge whether I’ve judged him too quickly or on the basis of his less listenable material? > > I don’t really think that someone who doesn’t like the genre would be a good judge of talent. OTOH, the people who do like the genre, and who give him lots of money because they enjoy his music, probably are a better judge. > > So, have the people who do like the genre given him lots of money? I’d say so. I don’t like his music or the genre in general, but I can recognize that he must have some level of talent, or people wouldn’t be throwing so much money at him. That’s not true at all. There are things that are objectively bad that make a lot of money. The question isn’t if he made a lot of money. It’s if he’s the genius that he and others claim he is. I am certainly not a good judge. I don’t like rap or any later versions and genres it birthed. I have heard from those that can judge the music that West was consistently ahead of his time. He never rested on his laurels and changed up between each album. His shifts in style were met with skepticism at each turn but then became the often imitated standard. If that assessment is correct I’m willing to concede his talent and maybe even genius. Like many other aging artist his best time for creativity may be behind him. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/35 "2022-12-02T15:53:20Z")
I like to think I can concede “genius” to things I don’t know much about or don’t like or don’t understand. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/36 "2022-12-02T15:55:47Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > There are things that are objectively bad that make a lot of money. I can’t think of any singers/songwriters, or performers of any kind, that were objectively bad and yet made a lot of money. _Subjectively_, sure, not everyone liked them, but obviously _someone_ did. I’m not even sure how you judge the _objective_ merits of an artistic work. > [@Loach](#): > > The question isn’t if he made a lot of money. It’s if he’s the genius that he and others claim he is. I don’t see the two as unrelated, as people without talent are generally not going to have as many fans as those with talent. “Genius” is far too ambiguous and subjective a claim to measure on its own merits, which is why I’m talking about talent. > [@Loach](#): > > I am certainly not a good judge. I don’t like rap or any later versions and genres it birthed. I’m mostly in agreement with you. There are a couple of songs from the genre that I didn’t find entirely unpleasant, and a few that were even catchy, but on the whole, it’s not my cup of tea. > [@Loach](#): > > If that assessment is correct I’m willing to concede his talent and maybe even genius. That assessment seems to be made by people who are better qualified to judge than we are, so I take it as a _more_ objective measure than my personal reactions. > [@Loach](#): > > Like many other aging artist his best time for creativity may be behind him. And this is likely, and one of the reasons why he is trying to stay relevant by trolling as he is. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/37 "2022-12-02T15:56:39Z")
I think it was Malcolm Gladwell who wrote about Kanye’s musical ability, saying that other musicians see him as very talented but that the public doesn’t understand what he’s doing musically. (This was about music, not lyrics.) ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/38 "2022-12-02T15:57:45Z")
West reminds me in some ways of chess great Bobby Fischer, who also exhibited genius surpassing his peers, had a history of erratic behavior and eventually espoused conspiratorial, anti-semitic views despite being Jewish. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/39 "2022-12-02T16:04:51Z")
I guarantee you will declare him a musical genius after watching this video. You might have to rewatch a few times, but you’ll come to that realization. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/BBAtAM7vtgc/maxresdefault.jpg "Kanye West - Bound 2 (Explicit)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBAtAM7vtgc) jk 😉 ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/40 "2022-12-02T16:04:54Z")
I hate rap so cannot judge fairly. But here is something interesting and sort of odd. One of the first Rap songs (at least that I know of) was performed by a blonde white woman. Blondie - Rapture. It wasn’t all Rap though. Just a bit of it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895.md?page=3)