# Kanye West - what happened? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 2, 2022, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895 "2022-12-02T00:56:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/41 "2022-12-02T16:09:45Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > One of the first Rap songs (at least that I know of) was performed by a blonde white woman. My understanding is that “Rapture” wasn’t necessarily “one of the first rap songs,” so much as one of the first rap songs that got wide exposure. Debbie Harry and Chris Stein were friends with several rap artists, and wrote the song after attending several rap events in New York. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/42 "2022-12-02T16:11:04Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > There are things that are objectively bad that make a lot of money. > > I can’t think of any singers/songwriters, or performers of any kind, that were objectively bad and yet made a lot of money. _Subjectively_, sure, not everyone liked them, but obviously _someone_ did. > > I’m not even sure how you judge the _objective_ merits of an artistic work. > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > The question isn’t if he made a lot of money. It’s if he’s the genius that he and others claim he is. > > I don’t see the two as unrelated, as people without talent are generally not going to have as many fans as those with talent. > > “Genius” is far too ambiguous and subjective a claim to measure on its own merits, which is why I’m talking about talent. > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > I am certainly not a good judge. I don’t like rap or any later versions and genres it birthed. > > I’m mostly in agreement with you. There are a couple of songs from the genre that I didn’t find entirely unpleasant, and a few that were even catchy, but on the whole, it’s not my cup of tea. > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > If that assessment is correct I’m willing to concede his talent and maybe even genius. > > That assessment seems to be made by people who are better qualified to judge than we are, so I take it as a _more_ objective measure than my personal reactions. > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > Like many other aging artist his best time for creativity may be behind him. > > And this is likely, and one of the reasons why he is trying to stay relevant by trolling as he is. I’m not going to get into a big hijack on the subject but I strongly disagree with you. There are many songs that are popular at a time and make money but they are just plain bad. Generally these are the songs that make the Billboard list but a few years later everyone wonders “What were we thinking?” ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/43 "2022-12-02T16:21:21Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > I guarantee you will declare him a musical genius after watching this video. Maybe I need a few more times watching that crap. Or are you kidding? (Serious question.) Uh huh honey. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/44 "2022-12-02T16:28:26Z")
> [@slicedalone](#): > > I don’t think he has much talent, musically. Could you post a link or two to his very finest display of musical genius, so I may judge whether I’ve judged him too quickly or on the basis of his less listenable material? [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ic5vxw3eijY/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEmCOADEOgC8quKqQMa8AEB-AH-BIAC4AOKAgwIABABGGIgYihiMA8=&rs=AOn4CLDSP9zclnwaXAQ5nMk-tQ1O8gqNPA "Estelle - American Boy [Feat. Kanye West] [Video]") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic5vxw3eijY) I don’t know how much of it is his, but it’s solid. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/45 "2022-12-02T16:29:37Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > There are many songs that are popular at a time and make money but they are just plain bad. Generally these are the songs that make the Billboard list but a few years later everyone wonders “What were we thinking?” I think that you may be confusing people you know and associate with with _everyone_, and assuming that _everyone_ has the same tastes and opinions on music. Or even that there is an objective POV from which something can be declared as “plain bad”. Especially something that recently, many people thought was good. Things get overplayed and worn out and people may not want to hear them anymore, but that doesn’t mean that when they were fresh and new, they were already “bad”. Anyway, I don’t think you disagreed with the entirety of my post, even though you quoted the whole thing and said as a blanket statement that you disagreed with it, as there were parts that I was in agreement with you. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/46 "2022-12-02T16:33:43Z")
It’s funny–I’m a 60s rock guy, pure and simple. I don’t particularly enjoy other types of music. Country, eh. Blues, eh. RnB, eh. Classical, eh. Show tunes, eh. Folk, eh. Disco, eh. Big band, eh. Grunge, eh. Etc, eh. But I can tell you which artists in each of those sub-genres is a genius. I may not choose to listen to them, because I don’t care for their type of music, but if someone puts on a record by one of these geniuses, I’ll sit through it and appreciate it, even if I never choose to play another song by that again myself in the future. But rap and hip-hop just grates on me. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/47 "2022-12-02T16:39:13Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > I don’t know how much of it is his Did he write that? It has a melody, I will grant you that. But he certainly doesn’t perform much on that tune. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/48 "2022-12-02T16:40:39Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I can’t think of any singers/songwriters, or performers of any kind, that were objectively bad and yet made a lot of money. _Subjectively_, sure, not everyone liked them, but obviously _someone_ did. Maybe William Hung? > **[William Hung](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Hung)** > > William Hing Cheung Hung (Chinese: 孔慶翔; born November 10, 1982) is a Hong Kong motivational speaker and former singer who gained fame in 2004 as a result of his unsuccessful audition singing Ricky Martin's hit song "She Bangs" on the third season of the television series American Idol. > At the time of his audition, Hung was a civil engineering student at UC Berkeley. After his spirited audition to be the next American Idol, he won the support of many fans, ironically, based on his perceived l... ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/49 "2022-12-02T16:49:22Z")
Seriously kidding (that’s the "jk 😉 " under the video). That song/video baffles me. Didn’t anyone ever tell him that maybe not all his ideas were good ones? The song and that video are both horrible. Top to bottom horrible. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/50 "2022-12-02T16:52:08Z")
Here is one of Kanye’s better known works: [Kanye West - Gold Digger ft. Jamie Foxx - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vwNcNOTVzY) It’s a nicely produced pop-rap song with some clever word play ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/51 "2022-12-02T16:58:22Z")
The only Kanye West song I would recognize is one he did with something called Dilated Peoples, and it includes a terrific couple of lines: “I don’t know what’s better: getting laid or getting paid. I just know when I’m getting one, the other’s getting away.” In the serious scholarly tome _Anthology of Rap_ (I bought it for my wife), West gets four entries, in the last chapter. > **[The Anthology of Rap](https://books.google.com/books?id=NZcNXLXGNJIC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_atb#v=onepage&q&f=false)** > > From the school yards of the South Bronx to the tops of the Billboard charts, rap has emerged as one of the most influential musical and cultural forces of our time. In The Anthology of Rap, editors Adam Bradley and Andrew DuBois explore rap as a... ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/52 "2022-12-02T17:09:26Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > West reminds me in some ways of chess great Bobby Fischer, who also exhibited genius surpassing his peers, had a history of erratic behavior and eventually espoused conspiratorial, anti-semitic views despite being Jewish. He reminds me of that Dave Chappelle skit about the blind KKK member who doesn’t know he’s Black. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/53 "2022-12-02T17:10:57Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > kidding Good to know. I thought I’d need to doubt your taste, or my sanity. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/54 "2022-12-02T17:17:46Z")
I’d like to know of one person that would step in to defend that song or video. Anyone? > [@](#): > > I wanna fuck you hard on the sink > After that, give you something to drink > Step back, can’t get spunk on the mink > I mean damn, what would Jeromey Romey Romey Rome think? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/55 "2022-12-02T17:29:32Z")
I personally would say that it’s very possible, even likely, that his mental illness is affecting his actions. But it’s not the cause. It’s at most an intensifier And even if it is _a_ cause, the fact you can have the same mental illness and not say this stuff means it’s not a sufficient. But It can be the reason he lacks filters and an appreciation for why saying this stuff out loud is a problem. His mental vulnerability might be why those who prey on such were able to convince him. I don’t blame the mental illness, but, at the same time, I suspect a medicated Ye would not be doing what he is doing now. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/56 "2022-12-02T17:29:59Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > He’s an asshole Even past his being bipolar, Ye (that is his actual name, and should be used) is way past being an asshole. An asshole cuts you off in traffic or makes a small disagreement personal. This guy is genuinely megalomaniacal. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/57 "2022-12-02T17:33:38Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > Maybe William Hung? Good on the kid for making a little hay while the sun was shining, but he didn’t make that much money. He might have sold about 200,000 albums, which is better than some acts, but I’d be surprised if he made $100,000 from it. Maybe as much in appearance fees on top. Not shabby, but pretty minor league overall for several years of work. Still, you know what, the guy went on American Idol, made enough money to pay for his education, and had some fun. What a hero. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/58 "2022-12-02T17:58:47Z")
Well, he’s no spongemonkey, but I guess you do raise the point that on _some_ occasions, qualities about a person other than their innate talent at what they are purportedly doing can bring them success greater than their talent would allow. But I still think that’s more the exception than the rule, as has been implied. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/59 "2022-12-02T18:25:09Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > There are many songs that are popular at a time and make money but they are just plain bad. Generally these are the songs that make the Billboard list but a few years later everyone wonders “What were we thinking?” > > I think that you may be confusing people you know and associate with with _everyone_, and assuming that _everyone_ has the same tastes and opinions on music. Or even that there is an objective POV from which something can be declared as “plain bad”. Especially something that recently, many people thought was good. Things get overplayed and worn out and people may not want to hear them anymore, but that doesn’t mean that when they were fresh and new, they were already “bad”. > > Anyway, I don’t think you disagreed with the entirety of my post, even though you quoted the whole thing and said as a blanket statement that you disagreed with it, as there were parts that I was in agreement with you. I agreed with much of what you said it’s just a pain in the ass to delete a large amount of text while replying on the phone. As for whether a song can be objectively bad or if as the saying goes “the audience is a genius\*” I’ll leave you with this; “Disco Duck” reached #1 on the US charts. \*Quote from Billy Wilder: “Everyone in the audience is an idiot, but taken together, they’re a genius.” ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/60 "2022-12-02T18:35:26Z")
Just at a quick glance, I don’t see anything wrong with this man that would lead to all this unbridled opprobrium: [![](https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/1b7bbb9d895ea627db66728d8d44e19e?width=320) ](https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/1b7bbb9d895ea627db66728d8d44e19e?width=320) Nothing. Not a thing. Carry on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895.md?page=4)