# Kanye West - what happened? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 2, 2022, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895 "2022-12-02T00:56:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/61 "2022-12-02T18:40:20Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > > > He’s an asshole > > Even past his being bipolar, Ye (that is his actual name, and should be used) is way past being an asshole. An asshole cuts you off in traffic or makes a small disagreement personal. This guy is genuinely megalomaniacal. A lot of people are calling him asshole and that’s fine. I’m not sure why the name he wants to now be called should be used. I’m not very concerned that someone who likes Hitler might get offended. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/62 "2022-12-02T18:43:18Z")
Agreed. It’s not like we use Donald J. Trump’s actual name very often around here. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/63 "2022-12-02T19:03:25Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > A lot of people are calling him asshole and that’s fine. I’m not sure why the name he wants to now be called should be used. He legally changed his name. I’m not sure it’s a great idea to base what name we call people on whether we like them or not. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/64 "2022-12-02T19:05:14Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > As for whether a song can be objectively bad or if as the saying goes “the audience is a genius\*” I’ll leave you with this; “Disco Duck” reached #1 on the US charts. I mean… it’s catchy, and was sung by a pretty good singer. Better than Monster Mash, IMHO, which also spent some time at the number #1 spot. Novelty songs like that can become trite and hated quickly. Doesn’t mean there wasn’t talent that went into writing and performing them, just that novelty wears off fast. But, once again, just like the Hung example, they made some lunch money off of it, they didn’t have a decades long career that landed them as a temporary billionaire. Anyway, I do think that’s a large part of his problem. Success in one area has nothing to do with abilities or success in another, but those who have experienced great success tend to think otherwise. Whether or not he is a “genius” when it comes to music, he is certainly not when it comes to pretty much any other topic he has stuck his nose into. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/65 "2022-12-02T19:06:26Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > He legally changed his name. I’m not sure it’s a great idea to base what name we call people on whether we like them or not. Mostly agreed. His old name is his dead name, and it’s not just insulting to him, but to anyone who distances themselves from their deadname to use it. That doesn’t mean we can’t make up new insulting names for him, just that the shouldn’t be based on his old one. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/66 "2022-12-02T19:32:51Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Mostly agreed. His old name is his dead name, and it’s not just insulting to him, but to anyone who distances themselves from their deadname to use it. I thought “dead names” were for trans people. Anyway, thinking about Cassius Clay, I have come to the conclusion that we should call people by the name they choose, unless we want to come up with a different name to insult them. Their prior name should probably be left alone. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/67 "2022-12-02T19:38:21Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I thought “dead names” were for trans people. I think it’s used mostly in that context, but I don’t see why it _has_ to be exclusive to that context. People change their names to get away from the associations attached to their old names. If we respect it for one group of people, IMHO, we should respect it for all. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/68 "2022-12-02T19:46:18Z")
Sure he has a mental illness but I’m not qualified to say which one- some have said bipolar maybe that’s right or just one of several illnesses. I think his main problem is that his heart is filled with hate. Being mentally ill, slacking off on your meds, having a boatload of money and plenty of people telling you that you’re just fine isn’t a good combination. Is he a threat to others? Probably not so he likely can’t be institutionalized against his will. I think he continues to act just like he is until such time as it costs him big money. I can see the dude sleeping under overpasses in a decade. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/69 "2022-12-02T19:57:32Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Mostly agreed. His old name is his dead name, and it’s not just insulting to him, but to anyone who distances themselves from their deadname to use it. > > That doesn’t mean we can’t make up new insulting names for him, just that the shouldn’t be based on his old one. There’s a pretty substantial difference between the concept of deadnames for trans people, and whatever the hell Kanye decides to call himself. At this point I don’t think the guy should be accorded the power over us to decide what name to refer to him, even if it’s an indirect form of power it’s still him trying to influence YOUR brain as part of a storm of narcissistic attention-seeking. He’s not Muhammad Ali. His name doesn’t reflect some kind of higher principles. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/70 "2022-12-02T20:11:43Z")
Since when do we care what a person’s legal name is (misgendering with a deadname notwithstanding) around here? If someone wants to call this Nazi sympathizer “Kanye West,” why do you give a crap? No one says Boo when Donald Trump is referred to TFG or Shitgibbon or Oranganus, even though those aren’t his legal names. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/71 "2022-12-02T20:14:33Z")
I kinda feel like Ye is to rap & hip-hop what Progressive Rock is to Rock. People who are really in tune with the genre can identify how Ye built on it and made something different from the core output. Like Genesis or Yes or ELP he had some “accessible” stuff like “Golddigger” and “Monster” but a lot of the other stuff most of us would dismiss as boring or self-serving. But some people really dig Progressive and it takes them to a new level of appreciation for the genre they love. The rest of us are like “where’s the beat?” Those of us who don’t see the genius in Ye or Peter Hammil aren’t dumb, and people who see them as geniuses aren’t making shit up. We’re all just coming from a different level of interest and investment in the genre. I say this as someone who has grown up with a brother who is obsessed with prog rock. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/72 "2022-12-02T20:22:37Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > There’s a pretty substantial difference between the concept of deadnames for trans people, and whatever the hell Kanye decides to call himself. At this point I don’t think the guy should be accorded the power over us to decide what name to refer to him, even if it’s an indirect form of power it’s still him trying to influence YOUR brain as part of a storm of narcissistic attention-seeking. It’s not whatever he’s decided to call himself, it’s his legal name. I don’t understand the pushback on that. > [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Since when do we care what a person’s legal name is (misgendering with a deadname notwithstanding) around here? Misgendering with a deadname is exactly it. If you keep calling someone by a name they have legally distanced themselves from, then when you call someone out for calling a transgender person by their deadname, they can very rightly ask you what the difference is. You say there’s a substantial difference, can you actually articulate it? And if the difference is that you don’t like and respect Ye enough to acknowledge that he has changed his name, then they can throw that right back in your face. > [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > No one says Boo when Donald Trump is referred to TFG or Shitgibbon or Oranganus, even though those aren’t his legal names. Right, and I don’t know why that matters. You are referring to them by an insulting term, not by their old name that they have distanced themself from. That’s perfectly fine, as I already said. Using their old name _as_ an insult gets into some murky waters that leaves you extremely vulnerable if you ever want to call someone out for using a transgender person’s old name as an insult. They’d very rightly call you on your hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/73 "2022-12-02T21:22:59Z")
“Nazye.” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/74 "2022-12-02T21:32:30Z")
Give the _College Dropout_ album a spin. If there’s nothing there that grabs you, that’s fine, but it’s a fucking awesome work, and I’m not even that much into rap (but I do like a good bit of it.) ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/75 "2022-12-02T21:34:35Z")
> [@susan](#): > > “Nazye.” Perfectye! ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/76 "2022-12-02T21:35:35Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Using their old name _as_ an insult gets into some murky waters that leaves you extremely vulnerable if you ever want to call someone out for using a transgender person’s old name as an insult. They’d very rightly call you on your hypocrisy. I generally agree, though I would argue—not to get even farther from CS territory here—that there’s something of a difference between refusing to call a transgender individual by the name and pronouns corresponding to their identified gender, and refusing to call a celebrity by their latest personal customization of their “brand”. When you insist on, say, calling a transgender man by his deadname and female pronouns, or insist on referring to a married lesbian who goes by “Mrs. Marriedname” as “Ms. Maidenname”, for example, you are not just disrespecting that person, you’re rejecting the entire concept of the validity of transgender identity or same-sex marriage. When you insist on calling Ye “Kanye West”, on the other hand, you’re pretty much just disrespecting Ye. That said, I agree that if you want to make a neutral observation or factual statement about somebody, even somebody you don’t like, it’s better to use their preferred name. And if you want to insult them, there are plenty of names to call them that are better for that purpose. I mean, officially changing his name to “Ye” is one of the few things that this individual has done recently that’s not atrocious behavior. Why would you pick that as your nomenclatural hill to die on? ---
**Author:** ![planetcory](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/planetcory/32/1032_2.png) [@planetcory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/planetcory)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/77 "2022-12-02T21:35:48Z")
Kanye’s genius is believed to be in his production, not his rapping. He’s not really a rapper. He’s a producer who raps, who was repeatedly told, ‘stick to producing.’ His production carried his mediocre rapping to great success, which validated his egotism, and strengthened his defiance. ‘Haters told me I couldn’t do it,’ etc. But it’s the music, not the rapping, that people allude to as being ‘genius.’ And if you find hip hop grating or don’t think sampling is a real art or can’t appreciate the ‘melody’ of syncopated rhythm, then you won’t appreciate why he’s so highly regarded. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/78 "2022-12-02T21:36:20Z")
Given that he’s a nazi/nazi sympathizer, I won’t worry too much if I call him Kanye instead of Ye (especially since I didn’t learn until today that he wants to be called Ye). ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/79 "2022-12-02T21:45:14Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > As for whether a song can be objectively bad or if as the saying goes “the audience is a genius\*” I’ll leave you with this; “Disco Duck” reached #1 on the US charts. Muskrat Love made it to #4. ---
**Author:** ![xizor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xizor/32/102_2.png) [@xizor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xizor)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/80 "2022-12-02T22:02:01Z")
But have you seen the Seth Rogan/James Franco tribute version? [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/CU6gxLSBpn4/maxresdefault.jpg "Bound 2/3 Side by Side Comparison") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CU6gxLSBpn4) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895.md?page=5)