# Kanye West - what happened? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 2, 2022, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895 "2022-12-02T00:56:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2022, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/121 "2022-12-03T23:27:35Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > There’s nothing _inherently_ obnoxious about the name “Ye.” The name itself, no. But the whole performance art? Yes. No, celebrities don’t conventionally do this. At least, not the sane ones. I have yet to see Tom Hanks declare that henceforth he must be known as “Zut” – which of course would be the short form of “The Mighty Ba’gong of Mobzut”. Being sane, he’s fine with his actual name. I’m also amused by celebrities who think it’s prestigious to have only one name. No. People traditionally have two or more given names and a surname. I have two or more given names and a surname. My dog has one name. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2022, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/122 "2022-12-03T23:37:17Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Most bad behavior in this world is NOT driven by mental illness. Kanye does appear to be bipolar, but that does not cause his toxic opinions. Those arise from his personality traits, which are NOT mental illnesses and can’t be fixed by medications. Mental health professionals could help him with those ONLY if Kanye wanted to change. Thank you for this post. I think people generally are too quick to go to “mental health” as an explanation for bad behaviour. Some behaviour is just bad, and needs to be called out as such. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2022, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/123 "2022-12-04T00:49:09Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > People traditionally have two or more given names and a surname. People in the West, maybe. Not necessarily **[elsewhere](https://www.vice.com/en/article/j5xmgp/the-uniquely-indonesian-pains-of-having-only-one-name).** ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2022, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/124 "2022-12-04T01:47:30Z")
It’s hard for me to say. Where do personality traits stop and mental illness starts? I was diagnosed bipolar two years ago. Mine is a relatively mild case, but looking back at some points in my life and how I acted, I could see that when I hit hypomanic, my filter would turn off and I would do and say things I normally would not do and am surprised I was capable of doing. Oddly, it seemed to actually help me in advancing, and I’m glad I wasn’t treated until I got to experience all that I experienced. It’s unlikely I would have had one-tenth the adventures I did. But I thought that WAS part of my personality. Apparently, it was hypomania. Oh well. I still get fleeting glimpses of it even under my dose of lithium, and I don’t dare not take my meds now as a family man, but sometimes it is tempting. Re-listened to _College Dropout_ again today, after listening to it yesterday during a break at work. I wouldn’t quite call it or Kanye genius, but the talent and hard work and perseverance is immense. I actually admire his early story and the story behind the album quite a bit. It’s inspirational, and I can empathize to a small degree to it, but he’s far harder working and more talented than I am. He was a “normal” kid, didn’t grow up around guns, didn’t grow up dealing dope, pimping whores or any of the typical subjects and biographies of popular rappers in the early 00s. He managed to get massive acclaim as a producer, helping found what became to be known as “chipmunk soul” by ?uestlove, but nobody thought he could make it as a rapper, not rapping about the streets, but mostly what he knew from his middle-class lifestyle. (This is not to say other rappers weren’t or haven’t been doing this before, but as mainstream rap at that time, it was not usual.) Record labels wouldn’t touch him because they didn’t believe in his subject matter or his flow. They wanted him to stick to producing beats. But, perhaps fueled by his mania or personality, whatever you call it, he believed in himself and his product all the way to a Grammy award for his debut album, and both popular and critical acclaim (every major “best albums since the rock era” list will list _College Dropout_, at least.) He’s, at worst, very good at what he does. I find his lyrics at times poignant, spiritual, heartbreaking, bragadocious, disarmingly reflective, confessional, and goddamned funny. As a sometimes musician, I find his range of influences and styles engaging. The music on _College Dropout_ is so much _fun_ for me to listen to with its variety and arrangements. Criticize him for what he’s become – but the his music I would consider transcendent. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2022, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/125 "2022-12-04T01:52:10Z")
If anyone will appreciate this on the internet it is Cafe Society on the SDMB: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/yBpSgAF_Mws/maxresdefault.jpg "My Dinner with Kanye") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBpSgAF_Mws) ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2022, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/126 "2022-12-04T02:01:57Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > When they do come up with an anti-asshole pill I hope there is a generic version available. I wonder if it would be a suppository. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2022, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/127 "2022-12-04T02:22:26Z")
First thing I want to say is, I never get why people can’t separate out the work from the man. I like a lot of Kanye’s music, but that’s irrelevant to what I think of him as a person, which is an asshole. A lot of people seem to believe you’ve got to be pro or against both things as a package. Secondly, he may have a form of mental illness, but that doesn’t absolve him of everything. Mental health groups have apparently been offended by the implication that mental health alone can make you consistently act like _that_. Some people are just jerks and maybe some day it will be a mental illness. Maybe some day you could take a pill that would cure you of thinking you’re a genius on topics you haven’t studied for 5 minutes. Until that day though, it’s pretty important for us to condemn hateful statements and gross ignorance. The final thing is that he’s already become too hot for the right wing to meaningfully use, so they have to disown him fast. People like Elon or Hershel are useful idiots. Tucker Carlson is smart enough to use rhetorical sleight of hand to convey his message. MTG…well they have to be careful with her but so far she seems to fire up more of the base (and raise more money) than people who turn away just because of her. By comparison, Kanye is a nightmare, who’s already managed to embarrass _Alex Jones_, incredibly, and is getting exponentially worse by the day. I genuinely would not be surprised to read tomorrow that he tried to storm the Capitol alone, and smear excrement on the walls. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2022, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/128 "2022-12-04T02:28:45Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Secondly, he may have a form of mental illness, but that doesn’t absolve him of everything I don’t feel anyone in this thread is actually doing that. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2022, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/129 "2022-12-04T02:34:23Z")
Because he does not deserve absolution. Whatever his mental problems (armchair psychologist in me says extreme narcissism) he remains a menace. He is not seeing help. If he said/did one or two stupid things and got help that is one thing. Instead he is out there, keeps doubling down on the crazy and causing harm. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2022, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/130 "2022-12-04T03:09:52Z")
How is that a response to anything I said? Did I say anything about him deserving absolution? I’m pretty damned sure I didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2022, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/131 "2022-12-04T03:12:43Z")
I didn’t say you said that. Just commenting on why (I think) no one is saying that. I’m actually agreeing with you. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2022, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/132 "2022-12-04T03:25:33Z")
Ah. It came as a direct response to my previous post in the Discourse alerts. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2022, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/133 "2022-12-04T03:26:30Z")
Sometimes I hit the wrong “Reply” button. Sorry for the confusion. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2022, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/134 "2022-12-04T03:38:48Z")
Yeah, dude is totally off his fucking rocker, and whatever personality flaws he had have become magnified tens of times over since he became big as a performing artist in his own right. It really is wild. I don’t pay much attention to it, as what’s the point? His creative works I do like to listen to, and they’ve been a bit uneven since, I dunno, _The Life of Pablo_ maybe? But then he hits something like _Kids See Ghosts_, and turns his brilliance on again. I don’t know what’s going on with him. I want to believe it’s some weird contrarian troll fuckery, and he’s doing this purely to stir shit up and keep his name in the news, but I get the sense it’s much more than that. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2022, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/135 "2022-12-04T04:14:45Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > He’s, at worst, very good at what he does. I find his lyrics at times poignant, spiritual, heartbreaking, bragadocious, disarmingly reflective, confessional, and goddamned funny. As a sometimes musician, I find his range of influences and styles engaging. The music on _College Dropout_ is so much _fun_ for me to listen to with its variety and arrangements. I hate to admit it (because he’s become _such_ an asshole), but I agree with this. That album was great. I had the New Workout Plan on repeat when it came out, and that was even a bit of a fluff song. I still wouldn’t call him a genius, he put out some good & fun stuff, but if he went away tomorrow, meh. I like Jay-Z better. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2022, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/136 "2022-12-04T04:29:09Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > That album was great. And that was the debut. It’s primitive (but a good starting point, IMHO) compared to something like _My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy_ (which I happen to be listening to – thread put me on a Kanye kick, and I had forgotten how tremendous that album was – Googling to satisfy my curiosity, Pitchfork named it #2 album of 2010s. Rolling Stone had it at #1. Spin had it #8 of best albums of the past 30 years.) “New Workout Plan” is a whole lot of fun and hilarious. Love that one. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2022, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/137 "2022-12-04T04:52:41Z")
Again, I am not a psychologist, but it seems obvious his narcissism has run amok. There are plenty of examples of his narcissism. It was always there, and pretty bad, but it has gotten worse. And it should be no surprise. He is extremely wealthy. Famous entertainers are often surrounded by sycophants. I am willing to bet he is surrounded by them too. And it just spirals. No matter what stupid shit he says or does the sycophants tell him how great he is and how no one understands him but them. There is no one in his life to tell him “no.” No one to correct him. Most of us have friends/family who tell us when we fuck-up and need to be better. I doubt he does. It’s not a new story. This one is just writ large. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2022, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/138 "2022-12-04T04:56:47Z")
I think there’s an interesting question as to whether he’s more of a bigot (ie, genuinely admires Hitler) or more of a troll/edgelord (enjoys the shocking attention). But… I don’t think it really matters one way or the other. Either one deserves the opprobrium being heaped on him. ---
**Author:** ![OppositeKeith](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oppositekeith/32/13047_2.png) [@OppositeKeith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OppositeKeith)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2022, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/139 "2022-12-04T05:33:34Z")
my favorite album from him is graduation. i will admit it has times where it comes off as dated and it doesnt seem all that impressive now today. i think it still has its charm and is generally catchy overall. my favorite tracks are champion and homecoming [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/LQ488QrqGE4/maxresdefault.jpg "Kanye West - Homecoming") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ488QrqGE4) [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/jKT4ArZCkso/maxresdefault.jpg "Champion") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKT4ArZCkso) i wouldn’t go as far as say hes a genius, just a talented guy really with hit or miss records in his discography. i understand if you’re not into rap though. like with everything else its not for everyone and hes really not the first person i think of when i picture rap in general. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2022, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895/140 "2022-12-04T09:01:08Z")
I believe Kanye/Ye (I too just learned _Ye_ is his new name in this thread) is bi-polar and a narcissist. That could account for his unfiltered spewing of outrageous remarks and actions, especially if he’s not medicated. But, it doesn’t account for truly toxic beliefs, if indeed he believes the thoughts he spews (which is a big _maybe/maybe not_). Psychotics can be forgiven for toxic beliefs, but to my knowledge, Ye has no form of psychosis. As a narcissist, I think Ye ascribes to the _“any news, good or bad, is good”_ theory of staying in the public eye. As his fame wanes, I expect his outrageous behavior will grow. If Ye’s goal is making news and staying in the public eye, then his approach is successful. If his goal is to continue building wealth, then his approach is unsuccessful. A brief Google search shows sponsors are distancing themselves from him and his wealth is in decline. Maybe he’s a genius at staying in the public eye, or an idiot for squandering wealth. Which is more important to Ye? Only Ye knows for sure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kanye-west-what-happened/975895.md?page=8)