# Karl Lagerfeld says "Apart from fashion, jewellery, perfumes and wine France is not competitive" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 20, 2012, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-lagerfeld-says-apart-from-fashion-jewellery-perfumes-and-wine-france-is-not-competitive/638345 "2012-10-20T18:59:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-lagerfeld-says-apart-from-fashion-jewellery-perfumes-and-wine-france-is-not-competitive/638345/21 "2012-10-21T16:03:14Z")
It is interesting to note that Renault was once the largest import car make in the USA-at one point they outsold VW. Their cars were interesting, and did offer excellent fuel economy. But their reliability was sub-par…which is why they stopped selling in the USA (around 1980 or so). ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-lagerfeld-says-apart-from-fashion-jewellery-perfumes-and-wine-france-is-not-competitive/638345/22 "2012-10-21T16:44:35Z")
As a rule you’d be well off to disregard anything you read or hear after “Karl Lagerfelds says…” because he’s generally a batshit old bitch who just runs off at the mouth. Also, their tourism and their medical community is aces. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-lagerfeld-says-apart-from-fashion-jewellery-perfumes-and-wine-france-is-not-competitive/638345/23 "2012-10-21T19:12:03Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > It is interesting to note that Renault was once the largest import car make in the USA-at one point they outsold VW. Their cars were interesting, and did offer excellent fuel economy. > But their reliability was sub-par..which is why they stopped selling in the USA (around 1980 or so). People started complaining about the quality after Renault cars started to be manufactured in the US. They also no longer cared much about fuel economy after the oil crisis ended. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-lagerfeld-says-apart-from-fashion-jewellery-perfumes-and-wine-france-is-not-competitive/638345/24 "2012-10-21T20:02:24Z")
> [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](#): > > That’s why the Volkswagen group, the largest car maker in the world, has never been able to make a profit or really any inroads at all into the North American market. Volkswagen has never made “any inroads at all into the North American market”? Er, so all those cars I see with the “VW” logo, what manufacturer is that? ---
**Author:** ![Cheez\_Whia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d26b3c/32.png) [@Cheez\_Whia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheez_Whia)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-lagerfeld-says-apart-from-fashion-jewellery-perfumes-and-wine-france-is-not-competitive/638345/25 "2012-10-21T22:12:30Z")
Renault owns a pretty good chunk of Nissan. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-lagerfeld-says-apart-from-fashion-jewellery-perfumes-and-wine-france-is-not-competitive/638345/26 "2012-10-21T22:36:31Z")
> [@Cheez\_Whia](#): > > Renault owns a pretty good chunk of Nissan. It’s a bit more complicated than that. They have a corporate partnership in which both companies own a piece of the other. Renault owns more of Nissan than vice versa, but it is a partnership. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-lagerfeld-says-apart-from-fashion-jewellery-perfumes-and-wine-france-is-not-competitive/638345/27 "2012-10-21T22:46:14Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > It is interesting to note that Renault was once the largest import car make in the USA-at one point they outsold VW. Their cars were interesting, and did offer excellent fuel economy. > But their reliability was sub-par..which is why they stopped selling in the USA (around 1980 or so). Uh, cite? The only possible way that could be true is if you’re counting all the AMC’s sold during the short time when Renault had a controlling interest. For a brief period in the early 80’s, Renault was the second biggest European brand in the US, but it was a very distant second to VW. Renault’s quality wasn’t great in the late 70’s and early 80’s, but they were pretty much on par with the VW’s of the day and certainly better than any of the small cars coming out of Detroit at the time. Renault’s failure in the US market had more to do with poor buisness decisions (particularly the partnership with the already-circling-the-drain AMC) than particularly bad quality. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-lagerfeld-says-apart-from-fashion-jewellery-perfumes-and-wine-france-is-not-competitive/638345/28 "2012-10-21T22:47:18Z")
From wikipedia: > [@](#): > > With 39 of the 500 biggest companies of the world in 2010, France ranks 4th in the Fortune Global 500, behind the USA, Japan and China. Paris is the second most important location in the world for the headquarters of the world’s 500 largest companies: there are more Fortune Global 500 company headquarters in Paris than in Beijing, New York, London or Munich, but fewer than in Tokyo.[15] > > AXA is one of the world’s largest insurance companies; Air France is the world’s largest airline company in incomes; L’Oreal is the world’s largest cosmetic company; LVMH and PPR are the world’s largest and second-largest luxury product companies respectively; GDF-Suez is the world’s largest energy company; EDF is the world’s largest utility company; Areva is a large nuclear-energy company; Veolia Environnement is the world’s largest environmental services and water management company; VINCI, Bouygues and Eiffage are respectively world’s 1st, 2nd and 4th building and public work companies; Michelin is the world’s pneumatic leader; Lafarge is the world’s largest cement company; JCDecaux is the world’s largest outdoor advertising corporation; BNP Paribas, Credit Agricole and Societe Generale are respectively the world’s 1st, 6th and 8th biggest banks in assets in 2010;[16] ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-lagerfeld-says-apart-from-fashion-jewellery-perfumes-and-wine-france-is-not-competitive/638345/29 "2012-10-21T22:50:03Z")
> [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](#): > > That’s why the Volkswagen group, the largest car maker in the world, has never been able to make a profit or really any inroads at all into the North American market. To succeed in America you actually have to make good cars, whereas in the rest of the world e.g. VW’s biggest market China, you basically win by selling junk while using the money you save to bribe government regulators. hahahahahahahahahahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahaahhahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahah This is the most ridiculous, nay, hilarious, comment I’ve ever seen in my entire life. Which is better - Bentleys or Cadillacs? Porsches or Corvettes? Lamborghinis or Mustangs? Bugatti Veyrons or SSC Ultimates? American cars are **awful**. All they can do is wallow in a straight line. It suits your roads with their enormous size, useless drivers, and tiny speed limits to an extent, but driven hard by people who know what they are doing, they are disgusting. Now I will agree with you that perhaps VW should start making awful cars to appeal to ignorant American buyers. That would make commercial sense. The US mass market desires crap. But don’t pretend the cars will be better. Just better suited. It’s MS Paint versus Adobe Photoshop. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-lagerfeld-says-apart-from-fashion-jewellery-perfumes-and-wine-france-is-not-competitive/638345/30 "2012-10-21T23:10:13Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > Now I will agree with you that perhaps VW should start making awful cars to appeal to ignorant American buyers. That would make commercial sense. The US mass market desires crap. Slight sidetrack, but a lot of people think VW is doing just that. The latest generation of Passat and Jetta are significantly cheaper than the previous ones (and it shows!), which VW have explicitly said is aimed at increasing their market share in the American market. ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-lagerfeld-says-apart-from-fashion-jewellery-perfumes-and-wine-france-is-not-competitive/638345/31 "2012-10-21T23:18:54Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > So, is Lagerfeld an economist who knows what he is talking about? No, he is a rich celebrity who, because of his celebrity, can get his random right-wing political opinions broadcast. I think it is more than a bit unfair calling him just a celebrity, he is effectively a businessman. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-lagerfeld-says-apart-from-fashion-jewellery-perfumes-and-wine-france-is-not-competitive/638345/32 "2012-10-21T23:19:26Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > Uh, cite? The only possible way that could be true is if you’re counting all the AMC’s sold during the short time when Renault had a controlling interest. For a brief period in the early 80’s, Renault was the second biggest European brand in the US, but it was a very distant second to VW. > > Renault’s quality wasn’t great in the late 70’s and early 80’s, but they were pretty much on par with the VW’s of the day and certainly better than any of the small cars coming out of Detroit at the time. Renault’s failure in the US market had more to do with poor buisness decisions (particularly the partnership with the already-circling-the-drain AMC) than particularly bad quality. Cite: My AMC (Renault) Alliance blew its head gasket at 9,000 miles. The head was so warped that it could not be reused. Also, the plastic control knobs on the dash all fell off..and the alternator blew up. You might say the quality was “sub-par”:mad: ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-lagerfeld-says-apart-from-fashion-jewellery-perfumes-and-wine-france-is-not-competitive/638345/33 "2012-10-21T23:27:17Z")
Oh, another thing. I wonder if American dopers know what the hell “chevrolets” are in the UK. Take a look at [www.chevrolet.co.uk](http://www.chevrolet.co.uk) The majority of them are rebadged daewoos. When I see a chevrolet, normally because I have been driving along to find it obstructing my good progress, I am immediately thinking: where will I overtake this old (wo)man? ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-lagerfeld-says-apart-from-fashion-jewellery-perfumes-and-wine-france-is-not-competitive/638345/34 "2012-10-21T23:28:28Z")
(there is at least one cool chevvy corvette on the IOM [I also drive in the UK proper quite a lot but ignroe that {the differences are especially magnified here because a) most roads have no speed limit at all and b) most drivers either drive appaulingly slowly OR do not know how to overtake which leads to queues you need to despatch, and my daily driver isn’t THAT powerful}] which is driven properly, but I am talking balance of probabilities) ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-lagerfeld-says-apart-from-fashion-jewellery-perfumes-and-wine-france-is-not-competitive/638345/35 "2012-10-21T23:48:16Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Cite: > My AMC (Renault) Alliance blew its head gasket at 9,000 miles. The head was so warped that it could not be reused. Also, the plastic control knobs on the dash all fell off..and the alternator blew up. > You might say the quality was “sub-par”:mad: Well, the “cite?” was directed at the claim that Renault was ever the biggest import in America. Like I said, “par” was extremely low in the early 80’s. The early watercooled VW’s were likewise pretty awful, to say nothing of Detroit’s first wave of subcompact offerings. Plus the Alliance was assembled in Wisconsin, so at least in that case, France’s suitability to manufacturing (or lack therof) was irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-lagerfeld-says-apart-from-fashion-jewellery-perfumes-and-wine-france-is-not-competitive/638345/36 "2012-10-22T05:04:58Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > Cheese? > > ETA: I’m starting to think French wine actually _isn’t_ all that competitive for the price, anymore. Here is a fascinating [documentary](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0411674/) film on the subject. Really gets to what is wrong with French wine and wine around the world. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-lagerfeld-says-apart-from-fashion-jewellery-perfumes-and-wine-france-is-not-competitive/638345/37 "2012-10-22T05:06:17Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > Also, their tourism and their medical community is aces. This. I’ve been to France five times, and my partner has been there even more. Contrary to the stereotype, neither of us has ever had a problem being an American tourist. We have found them to be, in fact, more helpful than Americans are with tourists. And French medical research is often years ahead of the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-lagerfeld-says-apart-from-fashion-jewellery-perfumes-and-wine-france-is-not-competitive/638345/38 "2012-10-22T05:30:52Z")
I believe Arianespace launches more commercial satellites than any other company in the world. France is big in my field (specialized optics, mostly for space flight). Jobin-Yvon is the world leader in manufacturing of custom optical gratings. (They are now owned by a Japanese parent company, but the engineering and manufacturing is still done in France.) ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-lagerfeld-says-apart-from-fashion-jewellery-perfumes-and-wine-france-is-not-competitive/638345/39 "2012-10-22T10:38:11Z")
They’re also quite well represented in niche high-tech fields like safety-critical software engineering. Esterel Technologies and Thales (really a defence contractor, but did a lot of safety-critical work for Airbus) are all big players in this sector, and academia in France which is quite strong in this area also plays a big role with their industrial partnerships. The French economy is a lot like the British one. A lot of people here are looking at what the effects of the new taxation regime will be in France, as the two economies are so similar. ---
**Author:** ![DrumBum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e79b87/32.png) [@DrumBum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrumBum)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-lagerfeld-says-apart-from-fashion-jewellery-perfumes-and-wine-france-is-not-competitive/638345/40 "2012-10-22T12:25:11Z")
I wonder if Karl has heard of Total and Schlumberger. They seem to do pretty well in the oil patch. And while It is a bit of a niche, there is some world class research being done in the field of Earth Sciences at the University of Nancy. Our technology unit hires and sponsors several of the researchers from there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-lagerfeld-says-apart-from-fashion-jewellery-perfumes-and-wine-france-is-not-competitive/638345.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-lagerfeld-says-apart-from-fashion-jewellery-perfumes-and-wine-france-is-not-competitive/638345.md?page=3)