# Karl R. Krawitz - Come on down! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 29, 2011, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-r-krawitz-come-on-down/604387 "2011-11-29T00:12:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-r-krawitz-come-on-down/604387/21 "2011-11-30T14:42:43Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > I’ll quibble with the terminology, **Fotheringay-Phipps** , neither in your hypothetical, nor in the case of the doctor is it ‘private’. It may be protected or privileged, but if you are accepting taxpayer money, your professional actions cannot and _should not_ be ‘private’. In this case however, the legal adult (the student) involved waived her protection. The Principal needs to explain the reasoning behind his action\*, if not to me, minimally to the School Board of his district. I don’t know if that counts as waiving her protection. As for the school board, that’s between the principal and the school board - the issue at hand is the principal commenting to the media. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I got news for you, bud: things on Twitter aren’t private. I don’t know what this is in reference to. But I would note that it occurs to me that many people are mistakenly thinking that the girl was disciplined for posting negative things about the governor on Twitter. This is not the case. The girl claimed on Twitter that she had “made mean comments” to the governor in person at the event, and “told him he sucked”. It was these alleged comments that triggered the issue. (Turns out she had not actually made the comments, but people reacted to her claim.) kaylasdad has addressed your other comment. > [@phouka](#): > > In reference to **Fotheringay-Phipps** ’s claim that the principal’s action was private - that simply isn’t true. > > It’s protected, in that the principal may not publish or advertise the matter without the express consent of the student and/or the student’s legal guardians. The student, on the other hand, is free to publicize, flog, whore out, tweet, or blab to whatever extent she likes. > > The same is true of the physician/patient privilege and the attorney/client privilege. They exist to protect the privacy of the one who is seeking counsel or who is under the authority of another. Should the one being protected choose to waive that privilege, that’s their choice, but the doctor/attorney/authority cannot waive it without the client’s permission. Sometimes, in the case of attorneys, they can’t even do that. I don’t know if you’ve actually read my posts. I’ve repeatedly made the same point in this thread. Perhaps you can clarify what you think you’re contradicting me about. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-r-krawitz-come-on-down/604387/22 "2011-11-30T16:48:22Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Correct me if I’m mistaken, **RNATB** , but my understanding had been that the function was of the type where attendance and participation are by invitation, and that the issuance of those those invitations was handled at the school district/school level. That is, Ms. Sullivan was selected by officials of her school and school district to attend and participate. To insist that it was “not a school function,” while technically accurate, strikes me as a not-particularly-compelling quibble. As far as I can tell, the Youth in Government program is entirely voluntary and not handled by the school at all. Maybe it’s a quibble, but I don’t see how the fact that it’s a school function is compelling in itself anyway. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I don’t know what this is in reference to. > > But I would note that it occurs to me that many people are mistakenly thinking that the girl was disciplined for posting negative things about the governor on Twitter. This is not the case. The girl claimed on Twitter that she had “made mean comments” to the governor in person at the event, and “told him he sucked”. It was these alleged comments that triggered the issue. (Turns out she had not actually made the comments, but people reacted to her claim.) It didn’t “turn out” that she hadn’t made the comments. Everyone knew to begin with. It’s clear from the original link that the governor’s office only knew about the “alleged comments” because they were trawling Twitter looking for posts which mentioned the governor. If they told the principal that she had said these things to the governor based on what they found on Twitter, I suppose his actions are excusable, but that seems unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-r-krawitz-come-on-down/604387/23 "2011-11-30T17:01:03Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > As far as I can tell, the Youth in Government program is entirely voluntary and not handled by the school at all. Maybe it’s a quibble, but I don’t see how the fact that it’s a school function is compelling in itself anyway. > > It didn’t “turn out” that she hadn’t made the comments. Everyone knew to begin with. It’s clear from the original link that the governor’s office only knew about the “alleged comments” because they were trawling Twitter looking for posts which mentioned the governor. > > If they told the principal that she had said these things to the governor based on what they found on Twitter, I suppose his actions are excusable, but that seems unlikely. I don’t think you’re correct about either of these matters. [http://www.ajc.com/business/kansas-gov-says-staff-1244339.html](http://www.ajc.com/business/kansas-gov-says-staff-1244339.html) > [@](#): > > Krawitz, who said he had received “disgusting” hate mail over the incident, acknowledged he wasn’t a Brownback supporter but was troubled that a student had been disrespectful while on a school trip. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-r-krawitz-come-on-down/604387/24 "2011-11-30T17:21:27Z")
Did you miss this part? > [@](#): > > She said she was just joking with friends, but **Brownback’s office, which monitors social media for postings containing the governor’s name, contacted the youth program**. Sullivan said she was called to the principal’s office for the first time ever and told to apologize in writing to the governor. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-r-krawitz-come-on-down/604387/25 "2011-11-30T18:10:40Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Did you miss this part? No, I did not miss that part. What point are you trying to make with that? ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-r-krawitz-come-on-down/604387/26 "2011-11-30T18:59:58Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > As far as I can tell, the Youth in Government program is entirely voluntary and not handled by the school at all. Maybe it’s a quibble, but I don’t see how the fact that it’s a school function is compelling in itself anyway. I went to the same school as Emma Sullivan and participated in Youth in Government for three of my four years in high school. Kravitz wasn’t my principal, though. I’ve never met him. Youth in Government is basically a role playing excercise where everyone spends two days at the Capitol acting the three branches of government. 90% are legislators and you go through sub-committees, committees, and then both houses trying to get a bill passed. One person acts as Governor and others are even put into the role of Supreme Court It’s difficult for me to decide whether this was an official school function. Probably not. But you are in Topeka because of your school and you serve as a representative of your district. So I guess I have a small problem with Emma tweeting during a time she should be listening. But I have no problem whatsoever with her expressing her opinion or refusing to back down from the principal or the Governor demanding an apology. Were I on the Shawnee Mission school board, I’d want to know the full facts of the situation from Krawitz’s perspective but, quite honestly, I wouldn’t be inclined to punish him over this infraction. Put yourself in his position. The Governor of your state has just come down on you to do something about one of your students because she claims to have disrupted a speech and insulted the Governor, all while attending an extra-curricular event as a representative of your school. Would you have the guts to stand up to the Governor, potentially with your job hanging in the balance? No, the blame goes to the Governor’s office for even making this an issue to begin with. Apology or not, the Governor and his staff are to blame. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-r-krawitz-come-on-down/604387/27 "2011-11-30T19:14:37Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > No, I did not miss that part. > > What point are you trying to make with that? That there was no reason for anyone to believe that she said anything to the governor, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-r-krawitz-come-on-down/604387/28 "2011-11-30T19:20:42Z")
There was “no reason to believe” that something she explicitly said happened actually happened? Whatever floats your boat, bro. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-r-krawitz-come-on-down/604387/29 "2011-11-30T19:43:40Z")
I just blew up the buildings housing the SDMB servers and then I peed on the servers to make sure they could not be brought back to life. Obviously this happened as I just said it happened. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-r-krawitz-come-on-down/604387/30 "2011-11-30T19:44:16Z")
> [@](#): > > There was “no reason to believe” that something she explicitly said happened actually happened? > > Whatever floats your boat, bro. She “explicitly said” it happened to a limited audience via her Twitter feed. The governor’s staff only knew about it because they were trawling Twitter. Obviously, the governor himself would not have known about it at all, since it didn’t happen. Which part of this do you not understand? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-r-krawitz-come-on-down/604387/31 "2011-11-30T19:58:33Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > She “explicitly said” it happened to a limited audience via her Twitter feed. The governor’s staff only knew about it because they were trawling Twitter. Obviously, the governor himself would not have known about it at all, since it didn’t happen. Which part of this do you not understand? The guy who read the Twitter feed was not at the event and thought it happened. The governor himself does not get contracted every time some staffer deals with some post on social media. The staffer - who thought it happened - is the one who contacted the event official, who contacted the principal. Are you capable of understanding all that? Think about it a bit, if necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-r-krawitz-come-on-down/604387/32 "2011-11-30T20:06:10Z")
You don’t think the staffer would have contacted the governor before complaining to an event official? Really? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-r-krawitz-come-on-down/604387/33 "2011-11-30T20:13:47Z")
Yes, really. Guys posting 12.5 posts a day to the SDMB day in and day out might project based on their own situation, but being governor of a state is a very time consuming job. That’s why they have big staffs. It’s virtually inconceivable that governors get routinely asked about how to deal with nitwit posts on Twitter or the like, and while it’s _possible_ that this was an exception, there’s no reason to think it was. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-r-krawitz-come-on-down/604387/34 "2011-11-30T20:23:46Z")
It’s virtually inconceivable that a political staffer would complain to an organization about something a high school student supposedly said to a governor without asking said governor. It’s possible that this was an exception, there’s no reason to think it was. Nice post count rejoinder, by the way. You scored at least a million debate points with that one. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-r-krawitz-come-on-down/604387/35 "2011-11-30T20:29:10Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It’s virtually inconceivable that a political staffer would complain to an organization about something a high school student supposedly said to a governor without asking said governor. I disagree. (Obviously they had no idea it would become a national media event as it did.) > [@](#): > > Nice post count rejoinder, by the way. You scored at least a million debate points with that one. Sensitive subject, I see. Sorry about that. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-r-krawitz-come-on-down/604387/36 "2011-11-30T20:29:42Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It’s virtually inconceivable that a political staffer would complain to an organization about something a high school student supposedly said to a governor without asking said governor. It’s possible that this was an exception, there’s no reason to think it was. It’s entirely possible-deniability is a big factor in a case like this. If it goes well, not problem, and if it goes south, some no-name minion falls on his sword and the Gov looks good making a public apology for the minion’s muck up. SOP. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-r-krawitz-come-on-down/604387/37 "2011-11-30T20:55:53Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I disagree. (Obviously they had no idea it would become a national media event as it did.) Well, fair enough, then. As I noted above, I agree it’s possible things happened the way you suggest, but hardly likely. Apart from anything else, the governor surely wasn’t there alone; the staffer could probably have asked half a dozen other people who attended the event with him. As a side note, “the governor is too busy” is less of a convincing argument when his staff have time to perform vanity searches on Twitter. > [@](#): > > Sensitive subject, I see. Sorry about that. Hardly. I’m a full time worker and a full time graduate student. I have no worries about my productivity regardless of how much time I spend here. Perhaps it’s something you should be worried about, considering you’ve posted a dozen times in this thread alone. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > It’s entirely possible-deniability is a big factor in a case like this. If it goes well, not problem, and if it goes south, some no-name minion falls on his sword and the Gov looks good making a public apology for the minion’s muck up. SOP. I’m pretty sure the governor would look better not having to make a public apology. In any case, I’m sure the rest of the people attending the event with the governor would have noticed if some high school kid told him he sucked. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-r-krawitz-come-on-down/604387/38 "2011-11-30T20:59:00Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > As a side note, “the governor is too busy” is less of a convincing argument when his staff have time to perform vanity searches on Twitter. The governor has his job, the staff has theirs. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-r-krawitz-come-on-down/604387/39 "2011-11-30T22:53:26Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It’s virtually inconceivable that a political staffer would complain to an organization about something a high school student supposedly said to a governor without asking said governor. It’s possible that this was an exception, there’s no reason to think it was. To be honest, I can conceive of that pretty easily. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-r-krawitz-come-on-down/604387/40 "2011-12-01T11:52:44Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > To be honest, I can conceive of that pretty easily. I can conceive it too, but it’s really, really stupid. What could the staffer have thought would happen except that the principal would try to punish the student? Why wouldn’t you then assume that that student might get upset about said punishment and frame it as a freedom of speech issue? I would definitely argue that a staffer who did not think this through to that point is not smart enough to handle the PR job they are apparently attempting to handle. It really looks like someone getting bent out of shape over a matter of pride. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-r-krawitz-come-on-down/604387.md?page=1)