# Karl Rove Bails Out!!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 13, 2007, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-bails-out/415411 "2007-08-13T09:04:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-bails-out/415411/1 "2007-08-13T09:04:48Z")
[W00t!!!](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118698747711695773.html?mod=googlenews_wsj) > [@](#): > > Karl Rove, President Bush’s longtime political adviser, is resigning as White House deputy chief of staff effective Aug. 31, and returning to Texas, he said in an interview with Paul Gigot, editor of The Wall Street Journal’s editorial page. > > Mr. Rove, who has held a senior post in the White House since President Bush took office in January 2001, told Mr. Gigot he first floated the idea of leaving a year ago. But he delayed his departure as, first, Democrats took Congress, and then as the White House tackled debates on immigration and Iraq, he said. He said he decided to leave after White House Chief of Staff Joshua Bolten told senior aides that if they stayed past Labor Day they would be obliged to remain through the end of the president’s term in January 2009. Bye, bye macaca! ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-bails-out/415411/2 "2007-08-13T09:32:02Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] [W00t!!!](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118698747711695773.html?mod=googlenews_wsj) Bye, bye macaca! [/QUOTE] Erm, I’m sure this is good news for many reasons. But wasn’t the whole ‘macaca’ thing someone else? Not that I follow US politics all that much. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-bails-out/415411/3 "2007-08-13T09:36:43Z")
[QUOTE=Nancarrow] Erm, I’m sure this is good news for many reasons. But wasn’t the whole ‘macaca’ thing someone else? Not that I follow US politics all that much. [/QUOTE] Yeah, but I find it a handy term to smear certain folks with. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-bails-out/415411/4 "2007-08-13T09:59:59Z")
[BBC article](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6943814.stm). I wonder if he’s gearing up for one of the 2008 candidates? ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-bails-out/415411/5 "2007-08-13T10:04:22Z")
Aren’t we just so far past the point where this administration has wreaked maximum havoc as to make this irrelevant? Bush is now moving into lame duck territory; what does it matter that the guy who masterminded his elections is resigning? He’s done his job, after all, and there are no more elections left to win. And no, I certainly don’t see him returning with another candidate (whether he’d want to or not). What sane politician would want to saddle themselves with incumbency baggage? Particularly _this_ incumbency baggage. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-bails-out/415411/6 "2007-08-13T10:24:17Z")
Not having Rove receive a public paycheck anymore is heartwarmiing. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-bails-out/415411/7 "2007-08-13T10:51:17Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] Yeah, but I find it a handy term to smear certain folks with. [/QUOTE] So you like to use racial slurs to “smear certain folks with”, interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-bails-out/415411/8 "2007-08-13T10:56:43Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] So you like to use racial slurs to “smear certain folks with”, interesting. [/QUOTE] Last time I checked, Rove was white, like me. If it’s okay for me to call a fellow caucasian “honky” “cracker” or “opie” then I fail to see what’s wrong with smearing him with one that was obscure to 99% of the American population until 2006. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-bails-out/415411/9 "2007-08-13T11:01:21Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] Last time I checked, Rove was white, like me. If it’s okay for me to call a fellow caucasian “honky” “cracker” or “opie” then I fail to see what’s wrong with smearing him with one that was obscure to 99% of the American population until 2006. [/QUOTE] Then it’s okay to call a white person “nigger” or “spic” or “chink”? I think not. Just because macaca isn’t a common slur and doesn’t refer to white people doesn’t mean it is socially acceptable to use it, even incorrectly. About the only time I’ve _ever_ seen it okay to **use** a racial slur is when it is a slur that refers to a racial group and both people in the conversation (the person using it and the person being called it) are of said racial group. So while I can agree it might be “okay” to call Rove a honky (although honky is such a generally unused word across pretty much all of white America that I have any experience with to such a degree that it’d probably just be considered bizarre) that doesn’t mean me and you could start throwing around the words nigger/spic/chink/etc at one another just because the slurs don’t apply to either of us. Just the very use of the word is normally considered offensive. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-bails-out/415411/10 "2007-08-13T11:10:37Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] Then it’s okay to call a white person “nigger” or “spic” or “chink”? I think not. [/quote] Except that those words _are_ well known and have a _long_ history of being used in a hateful manner in this country. Macaca’s history in the US is pretty much limited to George Allen’s moment of absolute stupidity in the '06 campagin. And while I don’t do it, I’ve heard plenty of white folks refer to one another by the term “nigger” and I suspect that as the latino population continues to grow in the US and becomes a cultural force in America, you’ll hear the use of “spic” by whites tin reference to one another. > [@](#): > > Just because macaca isn’t a common slur and doesn’t refer to white people doesn’t mean it is socially acceptable to use it, even incorrectly. About the only time I’ve _ever_ seen it okay to **use** a racial slur is when it is a slur that refers to a racial group and both people in the conversation (the person using it and the person being called it) are of said racial group. Except that numerous groups of blacks have protested the use of the word “nigger” by blacks to refer to other blacks. > [@](#): > > So while I can agree it might be “okay” to call Rove a honky (although honky is such a generally unused word across pretty much all of white America that I have any experience with to such a degree that it’d probably just be considered bizarre) that doesn’t mean me and you could start throwing around the words nigger/spic/chink/etc at one another just because the slurs don’t apply to either of us. Just the very use of the word is normally considered offensive. By your logic, then if someone from China uses the Chinese word for “ghost” or “foreign devil” I should be offended, even though I can’t understand what they’re saying. And I don’t know where you’ve been hanging out, but the use of “honky” isn’t all that uncommon. None of this, however, changes the fact that one of Shrub’s masterminds is bailing on him like rats deserting the proverbial ship. Maybe you should wise up and realize that they know something you _don’t_. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-bails-out/415411/11 "2007-08-13T11:10:53Z")
It won’t be long before someone writes the lyrics to that haunting song that will forever mark this decade: " Donald, Scooter and Karl." ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-bails-out/415411/12 "2007-08-13T11:20:48Z")
Big deal. Nothing will stop him from giving advice to the president-he’s just moving to the Southwestern White House. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-bails-out/415411/13 "2007-08-13T11:27:54Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] Big deal. Nothing will stop him from giving advice to the president-he’s just moving to the Southwestern White House. [/QUOTE] Exactly. In those kinds of jobs, resignation and retirement are synonyms. ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-bails-out/415411/14 "2007-08-13T11:32:21Z")
So he abandons ship, and a few months from now we’ll see him in another advisory role to some other Republican rat-bastard, or else he’ll get a cushy job at a think-tank or a lobbying firm. And the public humiliation he so richly deserves for his role in steering the United States to where it is today will never happen. And so it goes. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-bails-out/415411/15 "2007-08-13T11:33:01Z")
I was wondering how this affects the supoena situation. I’m assuming the “executive privilege” claim would still apply, given that he was still employed as an adviser at the time. But now that he’s a private citizen, does any of his “protection” from being prosecuted or sued or whatever change? BTW, the world will not be safe until there’s a wooden stake through his heart or something…even if he went to jail, he’d still be operating from there, you can bet. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-bails-out/415411/16 "2007-08-13T11:36:15Z")
Under current White House “rules”, he still has EP protecting him. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-bails-out/415411/17 "2007-08-13T11:36:30Z")
[QUOTE=Czarcasm] Big deal. Nothing will stop him from giving advice to the president-he’s just moving to the Southwestern White House. [/QUOTE] Perhaps, but him being out of the “inner circle” will limit his ability to control what goes on. Not being “on the ground” in the White House on a day-to-day basis means he’ll only know what the people there _want_ him to know. That could have a big impact on what he says. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-bails-out/415411/18 "2007-08-13T11:49:19Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] Except that those words _are_ well known and have a _long_ history of being used in a hateful manner in this country. Macaca’s history in the US is pretty much limited to George Allen’s moment of absolute stupidity in the '06 campagin. And while I don’t do it, I’ve heard plenty of white folks refer to one another by the term “nigger” and I suspect that as the latino population continues to grow in the US and becomes a cultural force in America, you’ll hear the use of “spic” by whites tin reference to one another.Except that numerous groups of blacks have protested the use of the word “nigger” by blacks to refer to other blacks. By your logic, then if someone from China uses the Chinese word for “ghost” or “foreign devil” I should be offended, even though I can’t understand what they’re saying. And I don’t know where you’ve been hanging out, but the use of “honky” isn’t all that uncommon. [/quote] Alright, gotcha, you feel perfectly fine using racial slurs as long as they aren’t _popular_. Quite a forward thinker. Would tar baby be okay with you? Or is that still too well known? > [@](#): > > None of this, however, changes the fact that one of Shrub’s masterminds is bailing on him like rats deserting the proverbial ship. Maybe you should wise up and realize that they know something you _don’t_. All he does is advise, him leaving his official position in the White House doesn’t mean he’s going to stop doing that. Furthermore, top aides leave the White House _all the time_ across many Presidencies, it’s not a sign of anything _usually_. In this case it’s almost certainly not a sign of Rove “leaving Bush behind” it’s probably an example of Bush wanting to publicly distance himself from Rove. Rove is probably more toxic to Bush’s public figure than vice versa, and by a large margin to boot. ---
**Author:** ![Carl\_Corey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Carl\_Corey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carl_Corey)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-bails-out/415411/19 "2007-08-13T11:52:22Z")
[QUOTE=An Arky] BTW, the world will not be safe until there’s a wooden stake through his heart or something…even if he went to jail, he’d still be operating from there, you can bet. [/QUOTE] Not enough. You also have to cut off his head and fill his mouth with garlic. It’s the only way to be sure. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2007, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-bails-out/415411/20 "2007-08-13T12:16:31Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] Alright, gotcha, you feel perfectly fine using racial slurs as long as they aren’t _popular_. Quite a forward thinker. Would tar baby be okay with you? Or is that still too well known? [/quote] I dunno, **Martin** , would we be having this conversation if I referred to Rove as a monkey? Or is the fact that the term can be applied to a species of animal, humans in general, as well as a racial slur mean that it’s not offensive for me to use it against Rove? > [@](#): > > All he does is advise, him leaving his official position in the White House doesn’t mean he’s going to stop doing that. Ever play poker, **Martin**? Quite often its very handy to be able to see what expression the folks you’re dealing with are wearing. Rove s going to have a much harder time doing that all the way down in Texas. > [@](#): > > Furthermore, top aides leave the White House _all the time_ across many Presidencies, it’s not a sign of anything _usually_. Funny, that’s _not_ how I’ve heard it described when it’s happened in the past with various administrations. I take it that this means if a Dem takes the White House in '08, you _won’t_ be crowing when one of the members of their staff steps down at some point. :dubious: > [@](#): > > In this case it’s almost certainly not a sign of Rove “leaving Bush behind” it’s probably an example of Bush wanting to publicly distance himself from Rove. Rove is probably more toxic to Bush’s public figure than vice versa, and by a large margin to boot. Then why the _hell_ hasn’t Bush kicked Alberto “I have no memory” Gonzales to the curb? Members of the GOP are saying that Gonzales is a drooling idiot, so by your logic he should be shot out of the White House via goat cannon, but I don’t see that happening any time soon. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-bails-out/415411.md?page=2)