# Karl Rove - CIA leaker?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [July 3, 2005, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896 "2005-07-03T04:01:47Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Soylent\_Gene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soylent_Gene)
#### Post date: [July 3, 2005, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/1 "2005-07-03T04:01:47Z")
Lawrence O’Donnell of NBC News claims that Karl Rove is the Valery Plame leaker.
[here](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblog/archive/lawrence-odonnell/rove-blew-cia-agents-cov_3556.html)
Do you get the feeling Bush, Rove, Cheney, & Co. will get through this just fine…like they always do?
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [July 3, 2005, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/2 "2005-07-03T04:14:58Z")
More in the Pit thread: [Did Karl Rove out the CIA Agent?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=6325743#post6325743)
Here’s [The Newsweek Story](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8445696/site/newsweek/) as mentioned by O’donnell at Huffington.
You _know_ things are getting serious when Science Daily [covers the story](http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNews&article=UPI-1-20050702-23462000-bc-us-leak-2ndld.xml).
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### Author:  [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)
#### Post date: [July 3, 2005, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/3 "2005-07-03T04:36:28Z")
Oh yes, they might get away with it like they always do. But this time even more moderates will jump ship if they see their congress critters not demanding an explanation, elections are just almost a year from now, plenty of time to forget as always; but a long protracted court battle is just what is what I see coming to keep this on the news for a long time. (The scandal for the so-called liberal media is why there was little in the news for months to get answers on this)
But it is enough for me to see once again evidence of what kind of crowd there is in this administration, like the guys at Buzzflash reported and reminded us:
> [@](#):
>
> [Second Source Confirms Claim that Karl Rove Exposed a CIA Operative Who Specialized in Tracking the Illicit Trade of WMD AT THE SAME TIME Rove Was Masterminding a Propaganda Campaign Claiming We Went to War With Iraq Because of Illicit WMDs. If True, The Man Betrayed the National Security Interests of the USA.](http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000972841)
IMHO this case is just not a simple outing of an agent, it was part of a concerted effort to “fix” the intelligence on Iraq.
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [July 3, 2005, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/4 "2005-07-03T05:04:06Z")
Funny that this story got dumped on 4th of July weekend when it would get minimal news coverage and notice from the public. What were the odds?
Let’s hope the liberal media doesn’t bury this thing and keeps it alive past the weekend.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [July 3, 2005, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/5 "2005-07-03T07:20:55Z")
I haven’t followed this story very closely, but aren’t we all going to know soon enough? Will the Time documents be made public?
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### Author:  [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)
#### Post date: [July 3, 2005, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/6 "2005-07-03T07:29:07Z")
I think it’s interesting that up unitl the yesterday, the media—liberal and conservative, but especially liberal—that the cases against the reporters should be dropped because no crime was committed. Evidently, Valerie Plame was known to work for the CIA at the time of the “leak”. I haven’t looked into this in earnest, but there were discussions about it all week on Hardball, Hannity, Hume, Oberman, etc. I think all of them maybe not.
Anyone have better information?
I certainly think that if she was in fact an undercover agent and it was leaked, it was treason, and that somebody should start making the noose.
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### Author:  [@Soylent\_Gene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soylent_Gene)
#### Post date: [July 5, 2005, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/7 "2005-07-05T23:54:41Z")
I havent heard anything about this since Saturday.
Calm before the storm? Or has the administration effectively quashed the hub-bub?
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [July 5, 2005, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/8 "2005-07-05T23:59:00Z")
They were just discussing it on Hardball. I had it on the background, though, I wasn’t paying enough attention to get the details.
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2005, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/9 "2005-07-06T01:28:59Z")
Everything’s going to be OK.
[Rush delivers the straight dope:](http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_070505/content/rush_is_right.guest.html)😉
> [@](#):
>
> RUSH: Let me say one thing about this Karl Rove business. Let me tell you how I know. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Rove is not the leaker. If Karl Rove were the leaker to Matthew Cooper of TIME Magazine, do you think they’d have kept that news private during the 2004 presidential campaign? This leak occurred in 2003. If Karl Rove engaged in criminal activity, do you not think that the media – who claimed to know it all now – would have not released that information during the campaign, given it to John Kerry…
[Here’s a short piece](http://talkleft.com/new_archives/011349.html) describing the circumstances (with links to legal source) under which a federal prosecutor may compel testimoney from reporters. They can’t do it on a whim.
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### Author:  [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2005, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/10 "2005-07-06T03:52:41Z")
> [@](#):
>
> RUSH: Let me say one thing about this Karl Rove business. Let me tell you how I know. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Rove is not the leaker. If Karl Rove were the leaker to Matthew Cooper of TIME Magazine, do you think they’d have kept that news private during the 2004 presidential campaign? This leak occurred in 2003. If Karl Rove engaged in criminal activity, do you not think that the media – who claimed to know it all now – would have not released that information during the campaign, given it to John Kerry…
Well, it’s good to know ol’ Rush is still on message with the “Liberal Media” crap…
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### Author:  [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2005, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/11 "2005-07-06T12:00:32Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#):
>
> But it is enough for me to see once again evidence of what kind of crowd there is in this administration, like the guys at Buzzflash reported and reminded us:
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > Second Source Confirms Claim that Karl Rove Exposed a\*\* CIA Operative Who Specialized in Tracking the Illicit Trade of WMD\*\* AT THE SAME TIME Rove Was Masterminding a Propaganda Campaign Claiming We Went to War With Iraq Because of Illicit WMDs. If True, The Man Betrayed the National Security Interests of the USA.
Bolding mine.
This is news to me. I know that Ms. Plame’s husband was involved in disproving the yellowcake claims, but I thought that her activities as a CIA operative were unrelated and were more in the line of “plain vanilla” intelligence-gathering. I wasn’t aware that she was also in the WMD-biz. Am I mis-remembering, or is this wishful thinking on the part of the guys at Buzzflash?
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### Author:  [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2005, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/12 "2005-07-06T14:31:20Z")
> [@bizzwire](#):
>
> Am I mis-remembering, or is this wishful thinking on the part of the guys at Buzzflash?
You’re misremembering. It’s been out there for probably a year that Ms. Plame worked on WMD intelligence gathering.
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### Author:  [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2005, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/13 "2005-07-06T15:08:30Z")
> [@magellan01](#):
>
> I think it’s interesting that up unitl the yesterday, the media—liberal and conservative, but especially liberal—that the cases against the reporters should be dropped because no crime was committed. Evidently, Valerie Plame was known to work for the CIA at the time of the “leak”
If you mean the cases against Judith Miller and Matthew Cooper, I think that’s correct - because someone had already leaked the information to Bob Novak, and he’d already published the information. The big question is, who leaked it to Bob Novak?
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2005, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/14 "2005-07-06T15:50:40Z")
Does classified information cease to be actionable once that information has been released anywhere, by anybody? If there were a two-line ad in the classified section of the Podunk Smart Shopper and Garage Sale Guide, to wit: “Valerie Plame is a covert CIA agent and Martha: Come home! The cat forgives you!” would this mean that the information is no longer classified?
If Roger Schmendrinck revealed Ms. Plame’s covert status to his wife at 12.05 am, July 10th, does this mean that Mr. Rove was free to reveal such info as of 12.06 am of the same date? Even if he did not know? What provision of the relevent law renders “classified” informtion “unclassified” upon revelation? What provision renders only the original revelator culpable?
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2005, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/15 "2005-07-06T16:24:28Z")
Why am I getting a sense of deja vu evertime I open one of these Plame threads… 🙂
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### Author:  [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2005, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/16 "2005-07-06T16:27:08Z")
> [@](#):
>
> I think it’s interesting that up unitl the yesterday, the media—liberal and conservative, but especially liberal—that the cases against the reporters should be dropped because no crime was committed. Evidently, Valerie Plame was known to work for the CIA at the time of the “leak”
That’s the other excuse the right-wingers have been trotting out, and it’s crap. There is a _huge_ difference between something that is “generally known” (which is doubtful in this case anyway, but I digress) and something that has been _confirmed by the government_. However, I suspect this is behind Rove’s carefully-worded denials; he didn’t tell them that Plame was a CIA agent, but they asked him about it and asked him to confirm it and he said “yes”.
No difference, in my mind, but it would be an “out” to keep the apologists from having to admit that their administration committed a blatant act of treason as petty political revenge. (“What crime was committed? The reporters already knew!”)
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2005, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/17 "2005-07-06T16:30:09Z")
Stunning brilliance can oftimes have that effect. Its the mental equivalent to the lingering afterimage of a flashbulb.
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### Author:  [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2005, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/18 "2005-07-06T17:00:38Z")
Think for a moment about what Novak and the leakers have done.
The info we have right now is that Plame was an academic involved in covert intelligence gathering wrt to WMDs. Now, it’s useful to have academics reading journals and making assessments and so forth. But it’s hardly necessary to make them covert agents for those purposes. More likely, a covert agent from an academic background would likely attend academic conferences on topics related to WMDs – nuclear power generation, that sort of thing – and try to develop a network of informants who’ll keep her up to date on what her country is actually doing, as opposed to what they say they’re doing in government reports and scholarly journals.
Guess what happens when counterespionate types around the world read that Valerie Plame is a covert CIA op? Now they have an easy way to find out who might be leaking government secrets to the CIA. In many countries, the sort of enquiries that would be made of Plame’s former associates could not be characterized as ‘gentle.’
All because Rove wanted some political payback.
I swear, he belongs in a jail cell for SO many reasons.
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### Author:  [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2005, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/19 "2005-07-06T19:18:45Z")
[Miller ordered to jail, Cooper to testify.](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/reporters_contempt;_ylt=AjSa1xxzZlFUJSWlA6qQabys0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--)
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### Author:  [@Emerald\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emerald_Hawk)
#### Post date: [July 6, 2005, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/20 "2005-07-06T19:22:44Z")
> [@elucidator](#):
>
> Does classified information cease to be actionable once that information has been released anywhere, by anybody?
**DoctorJ** pretty much answered this already, but in short, no. Classified information remains classified no matter how many people know it, and you may still be prosecuted for confirming anything. Occasionally the government may decide to declassify something if everyone knows about it (like the existence of the NSA), but this is not a decision for a single person to make.
Sorry I can’t find a cite for this.
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