# Karl Rove - CIA leaker? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 3, 2005, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896 "2005-07-03T04:01:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![jfarrell\_bellind.com](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7bcc69/32.png) [@jfarrell\_bellind.com](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jfarrell_bellind.com)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/201 "2005-07-16T06:18:21Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > You’re confusing me (please, easy on the “easily done” jokes, 'kay?). On the one hand, you’re defending the Administration and Rove. Which tells me you’ve been into the Kool-Aid. On the other hand, you’re calling Judith Miller, a woman who practically takes all necessary sustenance from the fecal matter this White House releases under the guise of press communication, a bad reporter with unverifiable sources. She’s nothing but a hack. But she’s the only thing you have to go on. This whole “investigation” is going to go away faster than Hillary’s health care plan. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/202 "2005-07-16T06:30:02Z")
> [@jfarrell@bellind.com](#): > > She’s nothing but a hack. But she’s the only thing you have to go on. This whole “investigation” is going to go away faster than Hillary’s health care plan. When a special prosecutor sends someone to jail, it is really silly to expect that this is going away fast. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/203 "2005-07-16T06:44:22Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > Clams got legs. HAW HAW HAW. Oh. Wait. Wrong goon. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![jfarrell\_bellind.com](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7bcc69/32.png) [@jfarrell\_bellind.com](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jfarrell_bellind.com)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/204 "2005-07-16T06:51:58Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > When a special prosecutor sends someone to jail, it is really silly to expect that this is going away fast. I can give you this much: At least George and Karl will have more time to work on the Social Security issues while you’re spinning your wheels. This is such a non-issue it’s not funny. Why don’t you libs find a positive issue to work on that will actually help this country instead of trying to figure out how to get payback for getting beat in the last two elections. With all of the negative assaults the dems are launching it is no surprise that this nation is going “red” county by county. You just can’t forget about 2004. That election is being regarded as a turning point within this country. Try to do something, say something, and be something positive. Try therapy. The dem party may still be offering it for no charge. Just get over it. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/205 "2005-07-16T06:56:41Z")
> [@jfarrell@bellind.com](#): > > I can give you this much: At least George and Karl will have more time to work on the Social Security issues while you’re spinning your wheels. I sure hope so! Last I heard, they had worked support for their plan all the way down to 35%. Maybe they can hit the polling Mendoza line with a little more effort. > [@](#): > > This is such a non-issue it’s not funny. Unfortunately, many republicans seem to think burning intelligence sources is a non-issue. Perhaps Bush is aiming to have another massive terrorist incident on his watch. His numbers are certainly in need of some kind of boost. Party before Country Republicans. But go ahead and keep spinning and dancing. It’s a good hint that you’re scared. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/206 "2005-07-16T07:05:45Z")
> [@jfarrell@bellind.com](#): > > I can give you this much: At least George and Karl will have more time to work on the Social Security issues while you’re spinning your wheels. This is such a non-issue it’s not funny. > > Why don’t you libs find a positive issue to work on that will actually help this country instead of trying to figure out how to get payback for getting beat in the last two elections. With all of the negative assaults the dems are launching it is no surprise that this nation is going “red” county by county. > > You just can’t forget about 2004. That election is being regarded as a turning point within this country. > > Try to do something, say something, and be something positive. Try therapy. The dem party may still be offering it for no charge. > > Just get over it. You are just misdirecting here, so many words, no useful points. When a crime is committed, partisanship is not a shelter for silly arguments in its defense. Sam Johnson said that patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. This administration is hiding there first. ---
**Author:** ![jfarrell\_bellind.com](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7bcc69/32.png) [@jfarrell\_bellind.com](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jfarrell_bellind.com)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/207 "2005-07-16T07:25:37Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > I sure hope so! Last I heard, they had worked support for their plan all the way down to 35%. Maybe they can hit the polling Mendoza line with a little more effort. > > Unfortunately, many republicans seem to think burning intelligence sources is a non-issue. Perhaps Bush is aiming to have another massive terrorist incident on his watch. His numbers are certainly in need of some kind of boost. Party before Country Republicans. > > But go ahead and keep spinning and dancing. It’s a good hint that you’re scared. You crack me up. “Burning intelligence sources?”. Give me a break. Her and the husband have an agenda. She was as much an operative as Maxwell Smart. Everyone knew her “job” because her and the husband told everyone. Polling numbers? If you think this is about polling numbers I feel sorry for you. (And I’m sure Chris Berman wouldn’t want you using his line in a “political” forum). You just keep thinking and spewing like you do. Bush planned this?? Put the bong down. With people like you spewing that crap, I’m OK with a Republican in office and in control. Scared?? Yes I am scared. I’m scared of what will happen to this world if someone with your state of mind gets to be president. I was very scared in 1993 when the towers were first struck. Who’s “watch” was that on? When the Cole was hit whose watch was that on? God forbid if you have brought any children into this world and they turn out to be as bitter as you. ---
**Author:** ![jfarrell\_bellind.com](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7bcc69/32.png) [@jfarrell\_bellind.com](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jfarrell_bellind.com)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/208 "2005-07-16T07:27:46Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > You are just misdirecting here, so many words, no useful points. > > When a crime is committed, partisanship is not a shelter for silly arguments in its defense. > > Sam Johnson said that patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. This administration is hiding there first. What crime? It was common knowledge that she was CIA. She and her husband made it so. Wow. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/209 "2005-07-16T07:50:51Z")
> [@jfarrell@bellind.com](#): > > What crime? It was common knowledge that she was CIA. She and her husband made it so. > > Wow. Wow. Your point was already discredited, keep showing ignorance, it helps everyone else make up their minds. [http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20050715.html](http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20050715.html) > [@](#): > > ## It Appears That Karl Rove Is In Serious Trouble By JOHN W. DEAN > > Friday, Jul. 15, 2005 > > As the scandal over the leak of CIA agent Valerie Plame’s identity has continued to unfold, there is a renewed focus on Karl Rove – the White House Deputy Chief of Staff whom President Bush calls his political “architect.” > > Newsweek has reported that Matt Cooper, in an email to his bureau chief at Time magazine, wrote that he had spoken “to Rove on double super secret background for about two min[ute]s before he went on vacation …” In that conversation, Rove gave Cooper a “big warning” that Time should not “get too far out on Wilson.” Rove was referring, of course, to former Ambassador Joe Wilson’s acknowledgment of his trip to Africa, where he discovered that Niger had not, in fact, provided uranium to Iraq that might be part of a weapons of mass destruction (WMD) program. Cooper’s email indicates that Rove told Cooper that Wilson’s trip had not been authorized by CIA Director George Tenet or Vice President Dick Cheney; rather, Rove claimed, “it was … [W]ilson’s wife, who apparently works at the agency on [WMD] issues who authorized the trip.” (Rove was wrong about the authorization.) > > … > > The Jonathan Randel Leak Prosecution Precedent > > I am referring to the prosecution and conviction of Jonathan Randel. Randel was a Drug Enforcement Agency analyst, a PhD in history, working in the Atlanta office of the DEA. Randel was convinced that British Lord Michael Ashcroft (a major contributor to Britain’s Conservative Party, as well as American conservative causes) was being ignored by DEA, and its investigation of money laundering. (Lord Ashcroft is based in South Florida and the off-shore tax haven of Belize.) > > Randel leaked the fact that Lord Ashcroft’s name was in the DEA files, and this fact soon surfaced in the London news media. Ashcroft sued, and learned the source of the information was Randel. Using his clout, soon Ashcroft had the U.S. Attorney in pursuit of Randel for his leak. > > By late February 2002, the Department of Justice indicted Randel for his leaking of Lord Ashcroft’s name. It was an eighteen count “kitchen sink” indictment; they threw everything they could think of at Randel. Most relevant for Karl Rove’s situation, Court One of Randel’s indictment alleged a violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 641. This is a law that prohibits theft (or conversion for one’s own use) of government records and information for non-governmental purposes. But its broad language covers leaks, and it has now been used to cover just such actions. > > Randel, faced with a life sentence (actually, 500 years) if convicted on all counts, on the advice of his attorney, pleaded guilty to violating Section 641. On January 9, 2003, Randel was sentenced to a year in a federal prison, followed by three years probation. This sentence prompted the U.S. Attorney to boast that the conviction of Randel made a good example of how the Bush Administration would handle leakers. > > The Randel Precedent – If Followed – Bodes Ill For Rove > > Karl Rove may be able to claim that he did not know he was leaking “classified information” about a “covert agent,” but there can be no question he understood that what he was leaking was “sensitive information.” The very fact that Matt Cooper called it “double super secret background” information suggests Rove knew of its sensitivity, if he did not know it was classified information (which by definition is sensitive). > > … > > While there are other potential violations of the law that may be involved with the Valerie Plame Wilson case, it would be speculation to consider them. But Karl Rove’s leak to Matt Cooper is now an established fact. First, there is Matt Cooper’s email record. And Cooper has now confirmed that he has told the grand jury he spoke with Rove. If Rove’s leak fails to fall under the statute that was used to prosecute Randel, I do not understand why. > > There are stories circulating that Rove may have been told of Valerie Plame’s CIA activity by a journalist, such as Judith Miller, as recently suggested in Editor & Publisher. If so, that doesn’t exonerate Rove. Rather, it could make for some interesting pairing under the federal conspiracy statute (which was the statute most commonly employed during Watergate). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/210 "2005-07-16T08:50:36Z")
John Dean ratting out Karl Rove. OK, maybe there is a God, after all. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/211 "2005-07-16T09:28:36Z")
> [@jfarrell@bellind.com](#): > > …Everyone knew her “job” because her and the husband told everyone. Even if that were so, and you can’t prove that it is, its perfectly irrelevent. Karl Rove has no authority to decide. For that matter, niether does Wilson or Plame. If each and every one had breached her cover, then each and every one is guilty of a crime. > [@](#): > > …Polling numbers? If you think this is about polling numbers I feel sorry for you… It isn’t. Its about what those numbers crudely represent. Doom. > [@](#): > > …You just keep thinking and spewing like you do… Thanks, I will. And I’m just guessing here, but I bet I’ve been doing it since before you were born. Know what? I’m just hitting my stride. > [@](#): > > …Bush planned this??.. Fuck no. His handlers wouldn’t let him plan a Hadassah luncheon. He’d order ham and cheese sandwhiches and milkshakes. > [@](#): > > …Put the bong down… Not done with it yet. Glaucoma prevention program. > [@](#): > > …With people like you spewing that crap, I’m OK with a Republican in office and in control… Oh, they’re still in office. But are they in control? > [@](#): > > …Scared?? Yes I am scared. I’m scared of what will happen to this world if someone with your state of mind gets to be president… Gee, that sounds awful. Would it be anything like a divided nation, starting a useless war that alienates our friends and multiplies our enemies, squanders our treasure and the lives of our best and brightest? [uote]…God forbid if you have brought any children into this world and they turn out to be as bitter as you. [/QUOTE] Have done, and raised. Generous, warm-hearted and devoted to justice. That’s how people get to be radicals in the first place, in case you didn’t know. Your sister thinks he’s hot. _Venceremos!_ ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/212 "2005-07-16T12:41:23Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > If each and every one had breached her cover, then each and every one is guilty of a crime. That’s right. Completely. Each breach would be a crime and should be prosecuted, no matter who it is. > [@elucidator](#): > > It isn’t. Its about what those numbers crudely represent. Doom. But we are forgetting The Mandate ™ > [@elucidator](#): > > Oh, they’re still in office. But are they in control? Looking at all the leaks that have already happened, nobody is in control. > [@elucidator](#): > > Gee, that sounds awful. Would it be anything like a divided nation, starting a useless war that alienates our friends and multiplies our enemies, squanders our treasure and the lives of our best and brightest? Don’t forget, the trashing of the constitutional right to privacy and the right to a speedy trial by a jury of peers and protection from unreasonable search and seizure, (Patriot Act), and the loss of the right to be secure in our property (reinterpretation of eminent domain), and the sharp rise of religious intolerance. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/213 "2005-07-16T12:57:27Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > Bilmon has a few interesting observations about this further leaked Rove-friendly bit of information. > [@linked\_article](#): > > [http://billmon.org/archives/002015.html](http://billmon.org/archives/002015.html) > But Hadley is/was a political appointee, who spent a lot of his time as the NSC’s #2 catching flak and dishing out the WMD propaganda. For example, he’s the guy the Rovians trotted out to take questions from 60 Minutes when Richard Clarke tried to blow the whistle on the administration’s pre-9/11 screw ups. > > Hadley was also at the center of the bureaucratic knockdown within the administration over Bush’s 2003 State of the Union speech, which brought the whole Nigergate controversy to a boil. And he was a member of the White House Iraq Group, which means he could be someone that Fitzgerald has been looking at closely. That bit of info would tend to make Hadley’s motives questionable (in the least). Interesting point - the Nigerian yellow cake was still in Bush’s speech, even after it was refuted by Wilson. Whether or not it was Rove personally (assuming a lot), someone in the administration was trying to “pay back” Wilson for not reporting his findings along party lines. Now IF the adminstration is as disciplined as they claim to be, then someone high up (at the Bush/Cheney/Rove level) had to give the green light. Other than that, a leak is a leak is a leak, and a leak is a criminal act. There have already been far too many leaks, Plame is just another to add to the list. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/214 "2005-07-16T13:00:45Z")
> [@jfarrell@bellind.com](#): > > As I said before I should not have labeled her a “lib mouthpiece”. > She is just a bad reporter who has never had verifiable sources. This goes back many years and the nyt should be held accountable for going along with her unsubstantiated tales. The dems/libs better wake up. She was a bad reporter and a Bush mouthpiece. This is a nice little demostration of how the administration rewards their lapdogs, isn’t it. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/215 "2005-07-16T14:11:46Z")
> [@jfarrell@bellind.com](#): > > What crime? It was common knowledge that she was CIA. She and her husband made it so. > > Wow. Maybe you should straighten the President out. Email him right away so that we can end these shenanigans. “… **this is a serious charge, by the way. We’re talking about a criminal action** …” [**George Walker Bush** , PotUSA October 7, 2003](http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2003/10/wh100703.html) Or perhaps he’s in on the liberal conspiracy to get back at himself for the elections? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/216 "2005-07-16T14:27:46Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > When a crime is committed, partisanship is not a shelter for silly arguments in its defense. Is there any objective (ie, non-partisan) source that thinks a crime was committed? I’ve been paying pretty close attention to the analysis being done on the various cable news networks, and I haven’t seen one expert witness say they think there’s a crime here. In fact, most of the partisan sources (Democrat, that is) are saying they doubt it. Everyone talks about how very, very difficult it is to prosecute someone under this law, and that it’s only been used once since it was passed. There are just too many ciriteria that have to be met. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/217 "2005-07-16T15:00:54Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Is there any objective (ie, non-partisan) source that thinks a crime was committed? I’ve been paying pretty close attention to the analysis being done on the various cable news networks, and I haven’t seen one expert witness say they think there’s a crime here. In fact, most of the partisan sources (Democrat, that is) are saying they doubt it. > > Everyone talks about how very, very difficult it is to prosecute someone under this law, and that it’s only been used once since it was passed. There are just too many ciriteria that have to be met. So true. The more I read about this law the more I wonder why it was passed. It seems to narrowly drawn to fit a particular set of circumstances that it seems virtually useless in protecting the identity of covert operatives. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/218 "2005-07-16T15:19:20Z")
> [@](#): > > What crime? It was common knowledge that she was CIA. She and her husband made it so. 1. You keep saying this. Please substantiate it. 2. Even if something is “common knowledge”, that doesn’t make it unclassified. Confirming a rumor brought up by someone else is equivalent to revealing the information outright. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/219 "2005-07-16T15:46:44Z")
Coupla things, on the “was there an actual crime?” tangent. First off, the prosecutor guy. Don’t know that much about him, but from what I can gather he appears to be some sort of prosecutorial lawbot, credited with a relentless, Javert-like persistance. (Which, apparently, in his circles is regarded as a virtue.) One is safe to presume that he knows the law. What, then, is the likelihood that he would spend two years on this and then say “Ooopsy! No law broken! Never mind.” Numero two-o, it may not be that law, if I read the born-again ratfink Dean right (as referenced above by **GIGO** ) there is another, entirely distinct law from the one we have been focusing on. We don’t know, this guy makes the Sphinx look like a blabbermouth. Further, he may be pursuing issues of perjury. As so many of our Tighty Righty brethren have never tired of pointing out (in the case of _Horndog vs Starr_), perjury committed to cover up something that isn’t, itself, a crime is nonetheless perjury, _ipso facto, ex parte, stark staring decisis._ And, of course, no Motion to Fuggeddaboutit has been filed. We have before us the example of the illustrious and widely admired Ken Starr in his pursuit of the above-referenced Horndog. (Ah! the great Wheels of Karma turn slow, but grind exceeding fine, what goes around comes around and bites in the ass! My spiteful and vindictive heart soars like an eagle…) ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/220 "2005-07-16T16:23:08Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Is there any objective (ie, non-partisan) source that thinks a crime was committed? I’ve been paying pretty close attention to the analysis being done on the various cable news networks, and I haven’t seen one expert witness say they think there’s a crime here. well, I think there’s a difference between a crime being committed and a prosecutable offense being committed. I’m not sure if you count the CIA as non-partisan or not. [RIGHT][30 January 2004](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/docs/plame.cia.letter.pdf)[/RIGHT] The Honorable John Conyers, Jr. Ranking Democratic Member Committee on the Judiciary House of Representatives Washington, DC 20515 Dear Mr. Conyers: Thank you for your letter of 29 September 2003 to the Director of Central intelligence (DCI) regarding any contacts the Central intelligence agency has had with the Department of Justice (DoJ) to request an investigation into the disclosure earlier that year of the identity of an employee operating undercover. The DCI has asked me to respond your letter on his behalf. Executive order 12333 requires CIA to report to the Attorney General “possible violations of criminal law.” In accordance with executive order 12333 on 24 July 2003, a CIA attorney left a phone message for the chief of the counterespionage section of DOJ noting concern with recent articles on this subject and stating that the CIA would forward a written crimes report pending the outcome of a review of the articles by subject matter experts. By letter dated 30 July 2003, the CIA reported to the criminal division of DOJ a possible violation of criminal law concerning the unauthorized disclosure of classified information. The letter also informed, DOJ that the CIA’s Office of Security had opened an investigation into this matter. This letter was sent again to DOJ by facsimile on 5 September 2003. By letter dated 16 September 2003, and in accordance with standard practice in such matters, the CIA informed DOJ that the Agency’s investigation into this matter was complete, provided DOJ a memorandum setting forth the results of that investigation, and requested that the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) undertake a criminal investigation of this matter. In a 29 September 2 003 letter, DOJ advised that the Counterespionage Section of DOJ had requested that the FBI initiate an investigation of this matter. Stanley M. Moskowitz Director of Congressional Affairs This letter makes it clear thet the CIA investigated the matter and decided to refer it to the FBI for a criminal investigation. So, apparently CIA “subject matter experts” decided that a crime had been committed. It’s a separate question of whether or not there’ll be enough info to prosecute the perp(s). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896.md?page=12)