# Karl Rove - CIA leaker? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 3, 2005, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896 "2005-07-03T04:01:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/321 "2005-07-18T17:12:23Z")
> [@Mal Adroit](#): > > Best quote _evah._ No, no, no. Cooper misunderstood Rove. What Rove actually said was “I’ve already sent you lunch.” See, it’s all perfectly explainable. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/322 "2005-07-18T17:30:22Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > 1. Contrary to the Democrat’s spin that he ‘outed’ her to ‘punish’ Wilson, Rove claims that he only told Cooper who she was to correct a lie being spouted by Wilson. Wilson was claiming that Dick Cheney sent him to Niger. Cheney said that wasn’t true. So when Cooper asked Rove about it, Rove said that Wilson was picked on the advice of his wife, an analyst for the CIA, and not by Cheney’s office. It’s hard to keep track of all the shifts in Administration justifications, obfuscations, etc. but can we at least nail the lie that Wilson claimed that the Vice President asked him to go? Here is the test of [Wilson’s _New York Times_ article.](http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0706-02.htm) Nowhere in it is there a claim that the VP askes Wilson to do anything. What Wilson wrote was: “In February 2002, I was informed by officials at the Central Intelligence Agency that Vice President Dick Cheney’s office had questions about a particular intelligence report. While I never saw the report, I was told that it referred to a memorandum of agreement that documented the sale of uranium yellowcake — a form of lightly processed ore — by Niger to Iraq in the late 1990’s. The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice president’s office.” Of course, if someone were out to get Rove, _et al_ the story cited by **Squink** a few posts back would also give the lie to the claim that smearing Wilson wasn’t on the Administration flunkies agenda. There are three ways to obscure an issue; intrduce irrelevancies, arouse prejudice, excite ridicule. Who suggested sending Wilson to Niger is irrelevant. His report was correct about the yellow cake, and Administration officials have conceded as much. To suggest that Wilson was sent as a boondoggle as a result of his wife’s position arouses prejudice. And the idea that Wilson depended upon his wife to get him a sinecure invites ridicule of his final report and makes it easy to dismiss as pure fluff. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Lance_Murdoch)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/323 "2005-07-18T18:04:54Z")
The President’s little slight of hand today in changing the criteria of what will qualify as terms for dismissal was certainly intended as a signal that he will stand by his faithful servant Rove for the foreseeable future. However, it is also an unmistakable indication that even George Bush believes that Rove leaked Plame’s identity to the press. If Bush believed that Rove were truly blameless in all this he would not have felt the need to amend his earlier statement. It’s also safe to say we will hear no more talk of “the most insidious of traitors” coming from the Bush family. Rove is one of the great villains of the American saga. That the Republican party has, so far, clung to him so faithfully in the face of his treachery is a testament to the staggering amount of power he has amassed to himself ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/324 "2005-07-18T18:09:49Z")
> [@Captain Lance Murdoch](#): > > Rove is one of the great villains of the American saga. That the Republican party has, so far, clung to him so faithfully in the face of his treachery is a testament to the staggering amount of power he has amassed to himself Nitpick: It’s _sleight_ of hand. Well, let’s look at who the Dems have clung to through the years: Robert KKK Byrd Ted (Blonde in the Pond) Kennedy Heck, the leading Senate Dem has a _death count_ , for crying out loud. Rove hasn’t killed anyone…that we know of! ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/325 "2005-07-18T18:18:20Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Nitpick: It’s _sleight_ of hand. > > Well, let’s look at who the Dems have clung to through the years: > > Robert KKK Byrd > Ted (Blonde in the Pond) Kennedy > > Heck, the leading Senate Dem has a _death count_ , for crying out loud. Rove hasn’t killed anyone…that we know of! Jesus Friggin’ Christ! I think the day that Byrd and Kennedy retire or die, the Right is going to be crying harder than the Left… Byrd has recanted his KKK days numerous times. He’s apologized for it copiously. That’s opposed, of course, to certain Republican southern senators who reveled in their racism and that of their constituency, running racism-based political ads, appealing to racism to defeat their opponents, both black and white, and even now celebrating their racist pasts and recent pasts in memoirs. You can list Byrd and Kennedy. I can list Thurmond, Helms, Lott, and others. Whose side of the scale’s going to drop, do you think? ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/326 "2005-07-18T18:23:51Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Nitpick: It’s _sleight_ of hand. > > Well, let’s look at who the Dems have clung to through the years: > > Robert KKK Byrd > Ted (Blonde in the Pond) Kennedy > > Heck, the leading Senate Dem has a _death count_ , for crying out loud. Rove hasn’t killed anyone…that we know of! To the extent that Rove abetted GW’s outrageous and unjustified war in Iraq he has a share in the death of thousands upon thousands. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/327 "2005-07-18T18:24:15Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Nitpick: It’s _sleight_ of hand. > > Well, let’s look at who the Dems have clung to through the years: > > Robert KKK Byrd > Ted (Blonde in the Pond) Kennedy > > Heck, the leading Senate Dem has a _death count_ , for crying out loud. Rove hasn’t killed anyone…that we know of! I think that **tomndebb** was right; this thread is only about who can come up with the biggest _tu quoque_. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/328 "2005-07-18T18:40:26Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > …with the biggest _tu quoque_. Must…resist…straight line. Must…preserve…dignity… ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/329 "2005-07-18T19:15:30Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Nitpick: It’s _sleight_ of hand. > > Well, let’s look at who the Dems have clung to through the years: > > Robert KKK Byrd > Ted (Blonde in the Pond) Kennedy > > Heck, the leading Senate Dem has a _death count_ , for crying out loud. Rove hasn’t killed anyone…that we know of! Two words: Iraq War. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/330 "2005-07-18T19:16:22Z")
Bush’s line sounded to me more off-the-cuff than a carefully-planned shift of the goalposts, delivered in his “schoolboy who didn’t prepare his homework” voice he uses so often. If he did mean it as stated, it’s already too late to work, though. > [@jayjay](#): > > Jesus Friggin’ Christ! I think the day that Byrd and Kennedy retire or die, the Right is going to be crying harder than the Left… That’s why they’re busy building up the Imminent Hillary Threat. Need a new generation of bogeymen, fresh meat for the jackals, and all that. > [@Stephe96](#): > > Heck, the leading Senate Dem has a death count , for crying out loud. Harry Reid? What’s his count up to - has it matched Laura Bush’s yet? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Mal\_Adroit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@Mal\_Adroit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mal_Adroit)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/331 "2005-07-18T19:29:11Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > What Rove actually said was “I’ve already sent you lunch.” See, it’s all perfectly explainable. Ha! [cheap shot] I dunno, can you really see Rove worried that someone \*else \*hasn’t eaten? [/cheap shot] ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/332 "2005-07-18T19:29:56Z")
Meanwhile, over at [talkingpointsmemo.com](http://talkingpointsmemo.com): > [@](#): > > A friend raises the interesting point about whether there’s a grandfather clause on the president’s new no-felons-employed here rule. If you committed a crime during Iran-Contra, can you work in this administration? Or does the rule – presumably – only apply to felonies commited in the course of employment. > > – Josh Marshall ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/333 "2005-07-18T19:30:56Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Must…preserve…dignity… So you were you finally able to find that. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/334 "2005-07-18T19:39:06Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > I think he has set new standards that all future presidential candidates are going to have to meet. “As president, I can promise you that we will have absolutely no felons working in the administration!” “As president, I can promise you that we will have absolutely no _ **unpardoned** _ felons working in the administration!” IIRC, we’ve already have a pardoned felon in the Admin. He wasconvicted fro lying to Congress. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/335 "2005-07-18T19:55:12Z")
A question for the Bush apologists: If Rove is so squeaky-clean heroically innocent, then why the heck does he (and his defenders in the White House) need to keep finding new excuses for his innocence? Innocent people point to the truth and stick with it; guilty folks keep throwing up new dodges when the old ones fail to stop the inquiries. ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/336 "2005-07-18T20:49:25Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > IIRC, we’ve already have a pardoned felon in the Admin. He wasconvicted fro lying to Congress. You mean Poindexter? I suppose, but he wasn’t even there a year before Congress pulled the plug on him. Whoops! ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/337 "2005-07-18T20:55:40Z")
I was thinking of Abrams. I just couldn’t recall his name at the time. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/338 "2005-07-18T20:59:33Z")
Supposedly, there’s a disagreement on the part of the CIA over Mrs. Wilson’s role in sending/recommending Mr. Wilson for the trip. (ie They say she didn’t) I’ve not been able to find the document yet, though I have seen two references to it, and heard one reference to it. Has anyone seen it? Here’re the print references to it [http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2005/07/14/plame/print.html](http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2005/07/14/plame/print.html) The three-page addendum by the ranking Republicans followed the now well-worn attack lines: “The plan to send the former ambassador to Niger was suggested by the former ambassador’s wife, a CIA employee.” The CIA subsequently issued a statement, as reported by New York Newsday and CNN, that the Republican senators’ conclusion about Plame’s role was wholly inaccurate. and [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/16/AR2005071601364\_pf.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/16/AR2005071601364_pf.html) CIA officials maintain that Plame never ordered up the trip. I’d like to see the actual CIA response, or failing that, the news articles discussing the CIA’s response. If anyone has seen either of these and knows where to direct me, I’d be much obliged. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/339 "2005-07-18T21:01:27Z")
> [@mack](#): > > You mean Poindexter? [Pentagon confirms Iran-contra figure in senior job](http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=2&ObjectID=10335546) (July 17/05) > [@](#): > > Robert Earl, who destroyed national security documents during the 1980s Iran-Contra scandal, is working as chief of staff to United States acting Deputy Defence Secretary Gordon England. > > Earl destroyed and stole national security documents while working for Oliver North during a secret arms deal with Iran in which the United States passed money from those weapons sales to Contra guerrillas in Nicaragua, according to a report to Congress by independent counsel Lawrence Walsh. > … > Earl was granted immunity for his testimony in the Iran-Contra scandal Of course that last doesn’t make Earl not a felon, it just means the republicans let him off easy. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/340 "2005-07-18T21:14:49Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > So you were you finally able to find that. Oh, it was there all along, but hidden behind my vanity and pomposity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896.md?page=18)