# Karl Rove - CIA leaker? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 3, 2005, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896 "2005-07-03T04:01:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2005, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/21 "2005-07-06T19:29:33Z")
> [@Emerald Hawk](#): > > **DoctorJ** pretty much answered this already, but in short, no. Classified information remains classified no matter how many people know it, and you may still be prosecuted for confirming anything. Occasionally the government may decide to declassify something if everyone knows about it (like the existence of the NSA), but this is not a decision for a single person to make. > > Sorry I can’t find a cite for this. Is it because it’s … classfied? Anway, I’m sorry Miller isn’t going to jail. I thought she’d crumble. She’s been a disgrace to her profession ever since she uncritically sucked up whatever she could find in Karl Rove’s lap in the march to the Iraq war, damn her. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2005, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/22 "2005-07-06T19:39:31Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Anway, I’m sorry Miller isn’t going to jail. 😕 Miller IS going to jail. ---
**Author:** ![Emerald\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Emerald\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emerald_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2005, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/23 "2005-07-06T19:46:09Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Is it because it’s … classfied? Heh, whoops. I think I answered a rhetorical question that everyone already knew the answer to.:smack: ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2005, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/24 "2005-07-06T20:08:41Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > 😕 Miller IS going to jail. Awright!!! You’re right, I misread. The miserable info-scum is going to the cell she deserves, even if it’s not for her part in being a cheerleader in the march to the Iraqi war. While I’m not the sort to wish her any SPECIFIC harm while in jail, in my dreams, she gets to be cellies with … Lynndie England! [Here’s why I’m so glad Miller is going to jail.](http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/22301/) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2005, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/25 "2005-07-06T20:16:04Z")
When do we average shmoes get to find out who the leakers were? I assume there are more than one, based on the Yahoo article linked to above. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2005, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/26 "2005-07-06T22:41:04Z")
Okay, I admit in advance that I stole this from another site but here goes anyway: “I smell a Medal of Freedom for Karl Rove!” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/27 "2005-07-07T21:36:35Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > When do we average shmoes get to find out who the leakers were? I assume there are more than one, based on the Yahoo article linked to above. The Grand Jury investigating the leak(s) expires in October. Before that time they can choose to indict the leakers - or anyone who has committed tangential crimes in the investegation- at which point in all likelihood those indicted names will be made public. (The Grand Jury can issue sealed indictments but the indicted’s names will be made public once an arrest is made). Or the Grand Jury can choose not to indict. Records, transcripts, orders and subpoenas relating to grand jury proceedings are “kept under seal to the extent and for such time as is necessary to prevent disclosure of matters occurring before a grand jury.” A transcript of the proceedings is made by a court reporter. Once a jury expires w/o an indictment there is rarely any reason not to release the all the records. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/28 "2005-07-07T22:12:02Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > [Miller ordered to jail, Cooper to testify.](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/reporters_contempt;_ylt=AjSa1xxzZlFUJSWlA6qQabys0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--) I deny everything! ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/29 "2005-07-07T22:47:11Z")
> [@jimmmy](#): > > Or the Grand Jury can choose not to indict. Records, transcripts, orders and subpoenas relating to grand jury proceedings are “kept under seal to the extent and for such time as is necessary to prevent disclosure of matters occurring before a grand jury.” A transcript of the proceedings is made by a court reporter. Once a jury expires w/o an indictment there is rarely any reason not to release the all the records. So, if the white house drags its feet, stonewalls, and uses any of a dozen technicalities in the next, what, 3 months, the whole thing could be “disappeared?” I just don’t get it. From what I read n _The Boston Globe_ today, miller didn’t actually write anything. Cooper merely regurgitated Novaks original story. Why are these two getting the third degree while Novak walks away scot-free? \* What kind of cockamamie, topsy-turvy world is this, anyway?\* And another thing. I can see protecting a whistle-blower who exposes shenannigans and fears repurcusions. But when the shenanigan is the leak itself, when the reporter is used merely as a tool, a “human shield” whose journalistic dedication to protecting her sources can be counted on and used to protect the leaker from his own criminal actions, well, what’s there left to protect? And thanks, **squeegee** for setting me straight in re Ms. Plame and WMD’s. It adds an additional degree of nastiness that I was unaware of. ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2005, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/30 "2005-07-07T23:05:08Z")
> [@bizzwire](#): > > So, if the white house drags its feet, stonewalls, and uses any of a dozen technicalities in the next, what, 3 months, the whole thing could be “disappeared?” No I don’t think so… I think almost no matter what by Halloween we will know what the Grand Jury knows. 2 possible exceptions to this BIG TALK: 1. The Grand Jury’s term could be extended for some reason. A court can extend a special grand jury’s term for 6 months, and can enter up to three such extensions, totaling 18 months - but there has to be a reason to do so. It would have to be the Prosecutors who asked to do this and have the court agree tho – not the White House. 2. If someone were indicted, it is possible that their lawyer could ask that the Indictment stayed sealed for a while. However in this case if say, Libby or Rove were indicted, it is unimaginable that they could get away with asking that the indictments remain sealed – The Political outcry would be so loud they would still have to resign anyway - but to die the death of a thousand cuts as we speculated what the Indictment said would seem crazy from here - the HWite House would want it all out at once (unless Bush or Cheney are themselves indicted and there is no reason at this point to think that). > [@bizzwire](#): > > I just don’t get it. From what I read n _The Boston Globe_ today, miller didn’t actually write anything. Cooper merely regurgitated Novaks original story. Why are these two getting the third degree while Novak walks away scot-free? \* What kind of cockamamie, topsy-turvy world is this, anyway?\* I think Novak might be able to claim the 5th before the Grand Jury if it is possible he could be indicted for revealing Palme’s name. IOW if his defense would be _“It wasn’t a crime because I didn’t knowingly reveal the information”_ and a reasonable person could say “_You did too knowingly reveal it_.” Even if that would be a tough case for the government to make to make, Novak could still reasonably plead the 5th in front of the Grand Jury. I think. I am not 100% positive about that – but “pretty sure”. I think “Novak took the 5th” fits most of the facts that we (think) we know of this case. ---
**Author:** ![JonScribe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3be4f8/32.png) [@JonScribe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonScribe)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/31 "2005-07-08T21:00:43Z")
NPR’s “Day to Day,” is reporting that Matthew Cooper has said his source relinquished him from the confidentiality agreement and is identifying Rove as the source. [url=http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4735450]Link.[lurl] ---
**Author:** ![JonScribe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3be4f8/32.png) [@JonScribe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonScribe)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2005, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/32 "2005-07-08T21:01:49Z")
Sorry. [Fixed link.](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4735450) ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2005, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/33 "2005-07-10T16:39:31Z")
[Here’s the link. (Note: my browser goes wacky when I try to load this)](http://msnbc.msn.com/id/852597) Didn’t see this one coming. From snips of conversation I’ve read on Fark (since I can’t open the freaking article itself), it appears that Rove is, indeed, Cooper’s source. Or one of them. I was elated for a while until I realized that it was Rove himself who authorized Cooper to name him. Why? I mean, we’re hearing talk of “treason,” of “perjury,” jail and other dire consequences. Rove’s mama didn’t raise no dummy. He wouldn’t have given Cooper the go-ahead if he thought there were a remote possibility he would go to the big house, so I figure there’s something here that we’re all missing, and I _think_ I know what it is: He will claim that he leaked her name to Cooper (and others, probably) as a smear tactic against Wilson; the point being that she pulled the strings that got him the Niger assignment. I personally don’t see what the big hoo-ha is about this myself, but he was probably trying to stir-up another “travel-gate” tempest in a teapot. Now here’s the kicker. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but she was an operative who worked under the cover of being an analyst. He’ll claim that all that _he_ knew was that she was an “analyst,” not an “operative,” and therein hangs all the difference in the world. I’m guessing that it’s not illegal to identify someone publicly as a CIA analyst. If Cooper want’s to say she’s a spy, that’s his problem, not Rove’s. whoopee!! My 1000th Post!! ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2005, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/34 "2005-07-10T16:47:36Z")
sighhhhh… [Let’s try that link again, shall we?](http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8525978/site/newsweek) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2005, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/35 "2005-07-10T17:12:54Z")
The Apologistas would very much like to make this a matter of legal technicality. “Hurrah, not indictable!” Feh! as they say in Lubbock. It is already established that Rover was pushing this story to anybody who would listen. As a means of discrediting and smearing a man who spoke the _truth_ to power. The _truth_, mind you! To that end, they were willing to use his wife against him. That stinks, plain and simple. And where was GeeDubya when all this was happening? Clearing brush? And, for what its worth, Ms. Plame did, in fact, have a “cover” as an employee of a consulting firm. I wouldn’t argue that such wasn’t a polite fiction, much like a Soviet “cultural attache” was presumed to be Cagey Bee. But her cover was that she was not an employee of the CIA in _any_ capacity, not that she was a mere analyst. ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2005, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/36 "2005-07-10T17:59:45Z")
I don’t disagree. However, I don’t think this is going to be the slam-dunk that a lot of people seem to think or hope that it will be, myself included. Worse than being indicted or even jailed, in Rove’s eyes, would be giving Democrats and Liberals ammunition or “proof” of how sleazy this administration is, which is why I don’t think he would have given Cooper the ok if he didn’t have a snug bolt-hole or iron-clad alibi already lined up. On the other hand, he might not give a rat’s rosy red rectum about the legality of his actions and is banking on the selective outrage and memory of hoi-polloi. It’ll be interesting to watch this play out. Oh yeah…for all those who cautioned against naming Rove without “all the facts” in this and other threads: “pfffffftttttthhhhhhhhppppppp!!!” I’m sure that will come back to haunt me… ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2005, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/37 "2005-07-10T20:00:23Z")
I can’t help but wonder what the White House’s and the Republican National Committee’s position and spin will be on this come Monday morning. For the last 48 hours there had to have been a small army, at least a battalion, of flacks, advisors, consultants and speech writers working over time to convert this piece of political vindictiveness into a noble and selfless act of statesmanship and patriotism. I can hardly wait to see what happens. It will not be enough that the flacks come up with some theory that raised doubts as to whether the leak was a criminal act. They are going to have to claim that it was a positive good thing to do and made the nation safer. Remember, please, Senator Kerry’s overheard comment about crooks and liars. Here we go, one more straw on the camel’s load. Sooner or later Collin Powell, the Good Soldier, is going to start talking. That is going to be interesting. I know his record in Vietnam – the Swift Boat guys ought to have a lot more trouble fabricating a plausible defamation out of that. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/38 "2005-07-11T09:52:01Z")
There are Republicans on board who were comfortably versed in the legal tactics to be employed in defense of Mr Rove, before the salient facts became public. You might try asking one or two directly, as talkative seems to be in their nature. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/39 "2005-07-11T11:11:04Z")
> [@Spavined Gelding](#): > > I can’t help but wonder what the White House’s and the Republican National Committee’s position and spin will be on this come Monday morning. I haven’t gotten my email yet. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/40 "2005-07-11T13:56:00Z")
“The Liberals are persecuting Karl Rove because he loves America too much” Fallback position B: These issues have enormous national security implications, and we cannot comment until the second Senate investigation on intelligence failures is completed. Fallback position C: These issues have enormous national security implications, and the WH cannot comment until all investigations and trials have been completed, and all resulting sentences fully served. Fallback position D: Karl Who? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896.md?page=3)