# Karl Rove - CIA leaker? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 3, 2005, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896 "2005-07-03T04:01:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/401 "2005-07-19T19:42:04Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > What I noticed was that the CNN link provided as a source confirming there was “speculation” didn’t even mention Karl Rove. At all. I’ll ask again: where is this speculation that Bush is naming his SC choice to deliberately force the Karl Rove story onto the back pages? Unless, of course, you think “there has been some speculation” is the same as “this is what my friend thinks.” The notion that the Administration was trying to wait out the press so that they could announce the SC nominee and thereby blunt the Rove matter has been around for a few weeks now. It got pretty some play in the Washington Post and I posted a comment to that effect within the last week or so. I don’t know if that’s what my friends think, but the professional press certainly does. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/402 "2005-07-19T19:50:20Z")
Well, its pretty small potatoes. Note, however, the acceleration of the timetable from later this month to prime time whoopity whoop right now! Granted, the nomination of SC justice is important, but a prime time interruption? Smells to me like somebody aches to be seen being presidential and dignified. It may be mere coincidence, but that seems unlikely. At any rate, they cannot be entirely ignorant of the distraction value. But even so, its got a pretty limited effect, it may calm down the news for a day or two (which might very well have happened anyway) but sooner or later Mr. Fitzgerald is going to show his cards. And from here it looks a lot like the trajectory of the shit will intersect the locus of the fan. (Note to **PatX** : _Calpundit/WaMo_ says FindLaw is assembling the relevent documents. Wonk heaven! Freak freely!) ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/403 "2005-07-19T19:54:54Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, its pretty small potatoes. Note, however, the acceleration of the timetable from later this month to prime time whoopity whoop right now! Granted, the nomination of SC justice is important, but a prime time interruption? Smells to me like somebody aches to be seen being presidential and dignified. > > It may be mere coincidence, but that seems unlikely. At any rate, they cannot be entirely ignorant of the distraction value. But even so, its got a pretty limited effect, it may calm down the news for a day or two (which might very well have happened anyway) but sooner or later Mr. Fitzgerald is going to show his cards. > > And from here it looks a lot like the trajectory of the shit will intersect the locus of the fan. Well, shit. That’s not at all how I imagined you saying it. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/404 "2005-07-19T19:55:04Z")
> [@](#): > > One prominent conservative said he believes the White House may be **moving the timetable up a week to shift media attention away from Karl Rove** , who is currently embroiled in a controversy over the outing of CIA operative Valerie Wilson, also known as Valerie Plame. > > “ **I advised them not to make the announcement until the end of summer** otherwise if the person is a conservative he or she is going to be hit at by all these left wing groups for the whole month [of August],” said Paul Weyrich, chairman of the Free Congress Foundation. “I have pleaded. There’s a lot of pressure to name him in order to get the Rove story and other things off the front page.” [Conservatives are told it will not be Gonzales](http://www.hillnews.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/Frontpage/071905/gonzales.html) ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/405 "2005-07-19T19:56:17Z")
Come on, you guys. I’m disappointed. I thought you had all pretty much decided that when Bush needs to get out of a jam he simply _raises the terror level_. Heck, in the aftermath of the London bombings he could’ve easily done this anytime during the past week or so. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/406 "2005-07-19T19:59:11Z")
He did. Orange to Yellow. But nobody takes that seriously anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/407 "2005-07-19T20:01:17Z")
One **prominent conservative** said he believes the White House may be moving the timetable up a week to shift media attention away from Karl Rove… **Paul Weyrich** , chairman of the Free Congress Foundation. “I have pleaded. There’s a lot of pressure to name him in order to get the Rove story and other things off the front page.” Well, this is closer to what I had in mind…but I guess “prominent conservative” can mean different things to different people. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/408 "2005-07-19T20:04:49Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > One **prominent conservative** said he believes the White House may be moving the timetable up a week to shift media attention away from Karl Rove… **Paul Weyrich** , chairman of the Free Congress Foundation. “I have pleaded. There’s a lot of pressure to name him in order to get the Rove story and other things off the front page.” > > Well, this is closer to what I had in mind…but I guess “prominent conservative” can mean different things to different people. Paul Weyrich was the man who MADE the 1994 Republican revolution in Congress. He runs just about every direct-mail appeal for funds or votes that the right wing puts out, and he’s completely committed to all of the issues and causes that make all the good little moderate-to-left-wing Dopers like me cringe. If WE vouch for his _bona fides_, you know he’s important. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/409 "2005-07-19T20:08:58Z")
I just want to clarify because I got Weyrich and his partner-in-political-buffoonery Richard Viguerie all mixed up with each other. Weyrich founded the Heritage Foundation, the most prestigious right-wing think tank extant. He’s the one who brought Viguerie’s direct-mail company into partnership with the right-wing in Congress. Viguerie himself is the direct-mail king. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/410 "2005-07-19T20:22:39Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > (Note to **PatX** : _Calpundit/WaMo_ says FindLaw is assembling the relevent documents. Wonk heaven! Freak freely!) Piffle. That’s sooo last week. I posted a link to that on my blog on the 13th. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/411 "2005-07-19T21:30:42Z")
> [@Twin](#): > > > [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > > > So he was for firing before he was against it? > > I don’t read it that way. I read it as he was for firing if a crime was violated in 2003. Then in 2004, his answer was viewed as saying that if anyone was involved (no mention of a crime) then they would be fired - which moved the goalposts. He issued a clarifying comment this week restating his intention to fire anyone if a crime was violated. This led to the outcry that the goalposts had been moved. I could be wrong, but that is how I see it. Y’know, **Twin** might have a point there. The current administration and it’s supporters continually argue that unless you could actually be indicted and tried for perjury it’s not a lie. In short, none of the Iraq war claims was made while the maker was under oath, so the claims weren’t lies. By the same argument there is no reason to hold anyone accountable for shoddy practices, even if they endanger itelligence operations, unless they are actual, indictable crimes. AKA ‘returning morality to Government.’ ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2005, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/412 "2005-07-20T11:29:13Z")
Here’s an open letter from 11 former intelligence officers to the House and Senate regarding the Plame matter: [http://talkingpointsmemo.com/docs/intel.officers.letter.pdf](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/docs/intel.officers.letter.pdf) Republicans with honor, please step up. Your country needs you. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2005, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/413 "2005-07-20T13:39:42Z")
I’ve found the part referenced here: [http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2005/07/14/plame/print.html](http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2005/07/14/plame/print.html) The three-page addendum by the ranking Republicans followed the now well-worn attack lines: “The plan to send the former ambassador to Niger was suggested by the former ambassador’s wife, a CIA employee.” The CIA subsequently issued a statement, as reported by New York Newsday and CNN, that the Republican senators’ conclusion about Plame’s role was wholly inaccurate. and > **[In Plame Leaks, Long Shadows](https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/16/AR2005071601364_pf.html)** CIA officials maintain that Plame never ordered up the trip. The Newsday article is here: > **[Newsday | Long Island's & NYC's News Source](https://www.newsday.com)** > > Breaking News, data & opinions in business, sports, entertainment, travel, lifestyle, plus much more. Newsday.com is the leading news source for Long Island & NYC. A senior intelligence official **confirmed that Plame was a Directorate of Operations undercover officer** who worked “alongside” the operations officers who asked her husband to travel to Niger. But he said **she did not recommend her husband to undertake the Niger assignment**. “They [the officers who did ask Wilson to check the uranium story] were aware of who she was married to, which is not surprising,” he said. “There are people elsewhere in government who are trying to make her look like she was the one who was cooking this up, for some reason,” he said. “I can’t figure out what it could be.” Note that this’s the CIA saying both that she was undercover and that she did not recommend Mr. Wilson. HOWEVER, I’m still looking for leads on the possibility that the memo mentioned here **contained falshoods and was written with the intent to deliberatley deceive**. > **[The Washington Post: Breaking News, World, US, DC News and Analysis](https://www.washingtonpost.com/?pagename=article&contentId=A30842-2003Dec25¬Found=true)** > > Breaking news and analysis on politics, business, world national news, entertainment more. In-depth DC, Virginia, Maryland news coverage including traffic, weather, crime, education, restaurant reviews and more. Sources said the CIA is angry about the **circulation of a _still-classified document_ to conservative news outlets suggesting Plame had a role in arranging her husband’s trip to Africa for the CIA**. The document, written by a State Department official who works for its Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR), describes a meeting at the CIA where the Niger trip by Wilson was discussed, said a senior administration official who has seen it. **CIA officials have challenged the accuracy of the INR document** , the official said, because **the agency officer identified as talking about Plame’s alleged role in arranging Wilson’s trip could not have attended the meeting**. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2005, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/414 "2005-07-20T14:12:00Z")
Well, sure, CIA would say something like that, hotbed of liberal activism that it is. Always been kinda “pink”. Not as infested with fellow-travelers as State, to be sure. And don’t get me started about those wild-eyed one-worlders at FBI! ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2005, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/415 "2005-07-20T14:16:16Z")
The Administration really messed up on this one. They did the equivalent of the corrupt mayor having a police officer “hit” because he was or was associated with someone who was whistleblowing on the corruption. The CIA, like a police department, is closing ranks to wholeheartedly oppose the people responsible for it. I thought the first rule of political leadership was “Don’t alienate your intelligence agency”… ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2005, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/416 "2005-07-20T14:46:28Z")
> [@](#): > > I thought the first rule of political leadership was “Don’t alienate your intelligence agency” We have no leadership, therefore the rule doesn’t apply. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2005, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/417 "2005-07-20T23:53:25Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, sure, CIA would say something like that, hotbed of liberal activism that it is. Always been kinda “pink”. Not as infested with fellow-travelers as State, to be sure. And don’t get me started about those wild-eyed one-worlders at FBI! The CIA’s just trying to get back at Bush because he courageously exposed their lies about Hussein’s WMDs and ties to al Qaeda, doncha know? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/418 "2005-07-21T01:02:25Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, sure, CIA would say something like that, hotbed of liberal activism that it is. Always been kinda “pink”. Not as infested with fellow-travelers as State, to be sure. And don’t get me started about those wild-eyed one-worlders at FBI! I see the invisible hand of the Illuminati at work here. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/419 "2005-07-21T03:52:55Z")
Ari’s missing press gaggle (July 13, 2003) (not on white house site): [http://canberra.usembassy.gov/hyper/2003/0709/epf301.htm](http://canberra.usembassy.gov/hyper/2003/0709/epf301.htm) Ari’s last press gaggle (July 14, 2003): [http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/07/20030714-4.html](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/07/20030714-4.html) [Ari Announces His Resignation](http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/5/19/101315.shtml) (May 19, 2003) There’s lots of Wilson/Yellow-cakey goodness in the two gaggles, but I like this quote from the missing one: > [@](#): > > why did we go to war. We went to war because of chemical weapons, biological weapons. And as you know, in the case of nuclear, there are other issues that go into nuclear, not just yellow cake. So, again, that’s why I urge you all to just keep this in perspective about what this one sentence means. And we have been honest about discussing the one sentence – and I think that it’s a case to be fair to the administration. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2005, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/420 "2005-07-21T05:07:41Z")
A bit more focus on details of the Memo on the Airplane: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/20/AR2005072002517\_pf.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/20/AR2005072002517_pf.html) > [@](#): > > …The paragraph identifying her as the wife of former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV was clearly marked to show that it contained classified material at the “secret” level, two sources said. The CIA classifies as “secret” the names of officers whose identities are covert, according to former senior agency officials. > > Anyone reading that paragraph should have been aware that it contained secret information, though that designation was not specifically attached to Plame’s name and did not describe her status as covert, the sources said. It is a federal crime, punishable by up to 10 years in prison, for a federal official to knowingly disclose the identity of a covert CIA official if the person knows the government is trying to keep it secret… Dateline tomorrow morning. That “this week” enough, **Patx**? freakin’ wonk! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896.md?page=22)