# Karl Rove - CIA leaker? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 3, 2005, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896 "2005-07-03T04:01:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/161 "2005-07-16T03:43:03Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > By the way, the original quote came from a CNN transcript. Presumably this means Wilson said it _live on-air_ ! Trying to make it sound like an AP reporting error in the first place is pretty much laughable. > > Try again. Nope, it is you that should try again, I heard the CNN bit on the radio, the AP correction is the one that better fits what it was said. You are being taken for a ride, and it is high time that you demanded better from your sources. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/162 "2005-07-16T03:43:32Z")
If you were reading any more selectively, you’d only be seeing the vowels. Don’t chug that Kool-Aid. You’ll get sick. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/163 "2005-07-16T03:47:46Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The AP already corrected the report, Wilson was sarcastic and what it said essentially was (paraphrasing): “after they blew her cover, my wife was no longer an agent.” > > So no, Rove is not in the clear, if the reports from the blogosphere I trust are correct, It is likely that Novak told the jury that the NYT’s Judith Miller told Novak about Valerie Plame’s CIA identity, then Novak called his two White House sources (one of them Rove) for confirmation. So he still corroborated that Plame was an agent, but I have to wonder if the sources you got your bit of info that “clears” Rove will make a correction. > > And as I said before, I am not much concerned if Rove is not the main leaker, this administration is irresponsible with information. Why would the AP have to “correct” something that Wilson said on CNN? How does that make any sense? Judith Miller told Novak about Plame’s CIA identity. Um, OK. So even if Rove DID say to Novak, “I’ve heard that, too” there is certainly no crime. From what I can tell, in order to violate that law you have to _knowingly_ put an agent _in the field_ who is on a clandestine operation at risk. Nope. Not even close. Finally, a NY Times reporter finds out that Valerie Plame is with the CIA and you think that means the administration is “irresponsible with information?” You’ve gotta be kidding. Were you furious with the Nixon White House for allowing Deep Throat to speak to the Washington Post? ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/164 "2005-07-16T03:50:10Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Nope, it is you that should try again, I heard the CNN bit on the radio, the AP correction is the one that better fits what it was said. You are being taken for a ride, and it is high time that you demanded better from your sources. You’re kidding, right? “The AP correction is the one that better fits” what _Wilson actually said live on-air_ ?!?!? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/165 "2005-07-16T03:52:07Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > I’ll accuse someone of “changing their story” if evidence indicates that they did indeed “change their story.” Joe Wilson has a tough time with the truth. For example, he first claimed that he was sent to Niger on behalf of Vice President Cheney. Turns out this is entirely false. He tried to wriggle out of that one by saying that what he _really_ meant was that the plan to send him originated with someone in the Vice President’s office. When _that_ one didn’t fly he backed off a little more. And this is just one example. I see a pattern here. Sorry, you were mislead again **Stephe96** , I read the transcript and it was clear that Joe Wilson never said that. Wilson did not claim chenney “sent him” to niger and Novak’s article didn’t refute wilson’s explanation of how he got the assignment. [http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0706-02.htm](http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0706-02.htm) > **[Robert Novak: Biography and Latest Articles - Robert Novak](https://townhall.com/columnists/robertnovak/)** > > Robert D. Novak (1931-2009) was born Feb. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/166 "2005-07-16T03:52:31Z")
**Stevie** , it doesn’t make the least bit of difference whether Joe Wilson is or is not a lying scumbag. It’s about Karl Rove. Nothing Joe Wilson could say or not say has the slightest bearing on the issue. By the way, you give yourself away when you post off the memo talking points from RNC. That one about Wilson claiming he was sent by Cheney has been pounded to goo a long, long time ago. Of course, if you think you can back it up, you’re welcome to further embarass yourself. But it would be kinda mean of me to not at least\* try \* to warn you off. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/167 "2005-07-16T04:00:34Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Why would the AP have to “correct” something that Wilson said on CNN? How does that make any sense? You really don’t want go there, thrust me, otherwise you are saying that Bush indeed was worried that “America is becoming Vulcanized”. And like that, there are countless corrections of errors from the fearless leader, so it does make sense, you are not. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/168 "2005-07-16T04:05:17Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > You’re kidding, right? “The AP correction is the one that better fits” what _Wilson actually said live on-air_ ?!?!? Nope, not kidding, it is really silly to continue your misleading point, there would have been no complaint from the CIA if Plame was not undercover then, conclusion: Wilson and the AP corrected what he meant to say on the air, and early transcripts are just like that, corrections will be made, I am sure you will give Wilson that right, just like the White House did countless of times to correct what Bush really meant to say. Vulcanize society? maybe he meant to say “I am rubber you are glue” to the press then. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/169 "2005-07-16T04:08:35Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Can we hang him anyway just for being Karl Rove? Pleeeeeease? There’s precedent. [Jack Slade](http://www.xphomestation.com/jslade.html) was hung for being Jack Slade. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/170 "2005-07-16T04:08:50Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > **Stevie** , it doesn’t make the least bit of difference whether Joe Wilson is or is not a lying scumbag. It’s about Karl Rove. Nothing Joe Wilson could say or not say has the slightest bearing on the issue. > > By the way, you give yourself away when you post off the memo talking points from RNC. That one about Wilson claiming he was sent by Cheney has been pounded to goo a long, long time ago. > > Of course, if you think you can back it up, you’re welcome to further embarass yourself. But it would be kinda mean of me to not at least\* try \* to warn you off. Cute. From the CNN interview: [CNN.com - Transcripts](http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/14/wbr.01.html) BLITZER: So if – and this is the final question – if there are no charges leveled against Karl Rove, will you apologize to him? WILSON: I believe Karl Rove should be fired. I believe Karl Rove should be fired because I believe it’s an outrageous abuse of power for somebody sitting in an office next to the president of the United States to be personally engaged in a smear campaign against citizens of this country. You have Wilson and the NY Times backing off of this story. Hmmm. Let’s try to think of why, shall we? Could it possibly be that they are _both_ in the position to know that Rove, in fact, didn’t even come close to committing a crime? Look at Wilson’s own words! He’s gone from accusing Rove of exposing his wife to deadly consequences by blowing her clandestine cover…to saying, rather meekly, that he should be fired…well, just _because_ , damn it. Methinks Wilson and the NY Times are desperately trying to put the brakes on this thing. But I realize that some of you are obssessed with Karl Rove. I understand that. I’m not quite sure how Rove’s resignation would be considered some kind of Democrat ‘victory,’ but I can understand the obssession. You can’t beat the man at the ballot box so you’re reduced to trying for a forced resignation. Good luck! ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/171 "2005-07-16T04:21:41Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Methinks Wilson and the NY Times are desperately trying to put the brakes on this thing. But I realize that some of you are obssessed with Karl Rove. I understand that. I’m not quite sure how Rove’s resignation would be considered some kind of Democrat ‘victory,’ but I can understand the obssession. You can’t beat the man at the ballot box so you’re reduced to trying for a forced resignation. > > Good luck! If the arguments for the defense are as pathetic as the ones you showed here, I do like the odds. I see the goal of all this as finally showing the public how the information on WMD was mishandled. Personally, I do think Karl Rove will not suffer much, Finding evidence that we have an administration of cowards that are willing to use and abuse the press (and finding the “Liberal media” meme in tatters) is good enough for me so far. Coming up next: the indictments. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/172 "2005-07-16T04:25:41Z")
I challenge you to prove that Wilson said “X” and you present me evidence he said “Y”. This whole “debate from evidence” thing seems to elude you. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/173 "2005-07-16T04:26:15Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Personally, I do think Karl Rove will not suffer much, Finding evidence that we have an administration of cowards that are willing to use and abuse the press (and finding the “Liberal media” meme in tatters) is good enough for me so far. > > Coming up next: the indictments. You’re backing off, too, huh? It figures. Oh, and be sure to wake me when these ‘indictments’ start hitting the news… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/174 "2005-07-16T04:26:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Look at Wilson’s own words! He’s gone from accusing Rove of exposing his wife to deadly consequences by blowing her clandestine cover…to saying, rather meekly, that he should be fired…well, just because , damn it. I see nothing to indicate he’s changed his opinion of Rove’s actions. I don’t see him saying Rove should be fired just because, either. I do see him saying he thinks Rove should be fired for a specific reason even if it should come to pass that no charges are pressed. Don’t you? Don’t you want Bush to hold to his word and fire whoever it was in his administration that leaked this information? You wouldn’t want Bush to do something that would make him a liar, would you? No, I think you’re claim that Wilson has changed his position is a failure on your part to understand. Much like figuring Wilson was saying his wife was no longer an undercover agent when her identity was leaked when he was in fact saying his wife was no longer an undercover agent **because** her identity was leaked was a failure. On your part. ---
**Author:** ![PETERFI](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2bfe46/32.png) [@PETERFI](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PETERFI)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/175 "2005-07-16T04:29:16Z")
[QUOTE=Soylent Gene] Lawrence O’Donnell of NBC News claims that Karl Rove is the Valery Plame leaker. QUOTE] If they can’t get him for anything else, can’t they get him for indecent exposure? I mean really, all this leaking in public places! 😛😛😛😛😛😛😛😛😛😛😛😛😛😛😛😛 [Urine for some Fun at the Peter Files]([http://the](http://the) [Peterfiles.blogspot.com](http://Peterfiles.blogspot.com)) 😃😃 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/176 "2005-07-16T04:34:41Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > You’re backing off, too, huh? It figures. Oh, and be sure to wake me when these ‘indictments’ start hitting the news… Late as usual **Stephe96** , I posted before that I see the administration has being responsible for the leaks, Rove still remains a strong possibility since your points were misleading and/or silly. And it figures: you misrepresenting my position is proof that you really can not notice when right wing sources do so. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/177 "2005-07-16T04:35:36Z")
Gah. You’re claim. You are claim. Sheesh. Your claim, of course. **Your** claim has no legs, not you’re claim. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/178 "2005-07-16T04:39:01Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > And it figures: you misrepresenting my position is proof that you really can not notice when right wing sources do so. That’s SO reality-based, **GIGO**! Didn’t you know the White House has announced a new paradigm? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/179 "2005-07-16T04:39:23Z")
> [@The Tooth](#): > > **Your** claim has no legs, not you’re claim. Clams got legs. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2005, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896/180 "2005-07-16T04:41:49Z")
No, he’s got you there, **Gigo**. You said you didn’t think Rove would suffer much, and that means you think Rove isn’t guilty! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-cia-leaker/310896.md?page=10)