# Karl Rove Says McCain Attack Ads Go Too Far **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 14, 2008, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-says-mccain-attack-ads-go-too-far/463593 "2008-09-14T20:09:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-says-mccain-attack-ads-go-too-far/463593/1 "2008-09-14T20:09:15Z")
[Rove: McCain went ‘too far’ in ads](http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/14/campaign.wrap/) > [@](#): > > Former Bush adviser Karl Rove said Sunday that Sen. John McCain had gone “one step too far” in some of his recent ads attacking Sen. Barack Obama. Man, it’s like being called a sleazeball by Larry Flynt… ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-says-mccain-attack-ads-go-too-far/463593/2 "2008-09-14T20:11:33Z")
Karl Rove never does anything without a reason, but I must admit this has me stumped. Is he planting the seeds for a backlash defense of McCain? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-says-mccain-attack-ads-go-too-far/463593/3 "2008-09-14T20:13:32Z")
Or maybe he just wanted to keep a small measure of credibility. I watched this at work this morning, he was very critical of Obama and very reluctant when talking about McCain. He basically said Obamas adds went too far and when pressed on it he admited McCains weren’t 100% truthful either, but its not like he came on and critized McCain out of the blue. ---
**Author:** ![Key\_Lime\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/48db29/32.png) [@Key\_Lime\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Key_Lime_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-says-mccain-attack-ads-go-too-far/463593/4 "2008-09-14T20:17:51Z")
Classic misdirection. Keep the attention on a surface “controversy” that will be forgotten & change no one’s vote, and away from the real issues. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-says-mccain-attack-ads-go-too-far/463593/5 "2008-09-14T20:18:42Z")
Here’s what I said about it on another thread here. > [@](#): > > Heh. Yeah. I was about to post that myself. It’s worth a chuckle. > > But if you go and read his full remarks, he’s actually trying to do something clever. He’s basically trying to tu quoque Obama, which is probably more credible than flat-out declaring McCain an innocent (and there’s no reason he can’t defend McCain half the time and tu quoque Obama the other half). And if Obama is denied the moral high ground, why wouldn’t you vote for experienced war hero McCain and feisty everywoman Palin? (Assuming, that is, that you don’t care about the issues or don’t blame the current Republican Party for the failures of the Republican Party over the last 8 years) > > But where Rove miscalculated is that “ROVE SAYS MCCAIN IS LYING” is the man-bites-dog headline, so that’s the part of his statement that will be repeated. It also plays into what I think is the new narrative of the week that the media is now transitioning into. It was WHO THE #$%& IS SARAH PALIN?!? and then SARAH PALIN: SO AWESOME, but now I think it’s becoming JOHN MCCAIN’S PANTS ARE ON FIRE. I might be wrong about that, or something else might jump in first, and who knows how long it will last, but that’s what I see at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-says-mccain-attack-ads-go-too-far/463593/6 "2008-09-14T20:21:49Z")
On one hand, he said that Obama using the “lipstick on a pig” phrase was no coincidence. On the other, he said that some of McCain’s ads don’t pass the 100% truth test. Someone who speaks a language other than political-spin would probably have used the word “lies”. So I guess we give Rove credit for being fair & balanced. ---
**Author:** ![Clu-Me-In](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@Clu-Me-In](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clu-Me-In)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-says-mccain-attack-ads-go-too-far/463593/7 "2008-09-14T20:26:30Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > [Rove: McCain went ‘too far’ in ads](http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/14/campaign.wrap/) I can’t help but wonder what standard he’s using for “too far.” His swift boat campaign slander of John Kerry or the lies his boy told to get us into Iraq?:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Jello](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@Jello](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jello)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-says-mccain-attack-ads-go-too-far/463593/8 "2008-09-14T20:36:56Z")
My favorite part of the article in the OP is the McCain camp’s “defense” against Obama’s charges: > [@CNN.com](#): > > “They’re going to talk about pigs, and they’re going to talk about lipstick; they’re going to talk about Paris Hilton, they’re going to talk about Britney Spears. They will try to distort my record, and they will try to undermine your trust in what the Democrats intend to do,” he said at a stop in Manchester, New Hampshire. > > McCain campaign spokesman Tucker Bounds criticized Obama for showing “zero restraint,” considering what Gulf Coast residents were facing after Hurricane Ike. Bounds said the “attacks mark a new low from Barack Obama.” ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-says-mccain-attack-ads-go-too-far/463593/9 "2008-09-14T21:04:11Z")
> [@Jello](#): > > My favorite part of the article in the OP is the McCain camp’s “defense” against Obama’s charges: > > > [@CNN.com](#): > > > > “They’re going to talk about pigs, and they’re going to talk about lipstick; they’re going to talk about Paris Hilton, they’re going to talk about Britney Spears. They will try to distort my record, and they will try to undermine your trust in what the Democrats intend to do,” he said at a stop in Manchester, New Hampshire. > > > > McCain campaign spokesman Tucker Bounds criticized Obama for showing “zero restraint,” considering what Gulf Coast residents were facing after Hurricane Ike. Bounds said the “attacks mark a new low from Barack Obama.” I’m strangely reminded of the Chewbacca Defense… > [@Johnny Cochrane on South Park](#): > > Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, Chef’s attorney would certainly want you to believe that his client wrote “Stinky Britches” ten years ago. And they make a good case. Hell, I almost felt pity myself! But, ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense! > > Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I’m a lawyer defending a major record company, and I’m talkin’ about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you’re in that jury room deliberatin’ and conjugatin’ the Emancipation Proclamation, [approaches and softens] does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-says-mccain-attack-ads-go-too-far/463593/10 "2008-09-14T21:47:14Z")
“And Obama did sayeth, Lord, may thou send me a soundbite, that I may useth it against my enemies, that I may forge it into mighty advertisements and let them play in all states that shine with the color purple, that I may remix it and replay it upon the YouTubes, that I may reference it obliquely, yeah even in the debates. And Low, did the Lord sendeth such a soundbite, and that from the very mouth of Obama’s enemies, and indeed was great political hay made from it, and it was good.” Also “not passing the 100% true test” is now my favorite euphemism for what’s more commonly known as “lying”. ETA: I had something more serious to add, but I think **Menocchio** more or less nailed it. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-says-mccain-attack-ads-go-too-far/463593/11 "2008-09-14T22:01:07Z")
I expect that Karl is just tossing out a few soundbytes of dissatisfaction so that when POWboy goes down in flames _again_, Mr. Rove can point to his own wise council and say “if only John had listened to me…” This will help Rove achieve more $$$ in the 2012 election cycle. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-says-mccain-attack-ads-go-too-far/463593/12 "2008-09-14T22:55:41Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > I expect that Karl is just tossing out a few soundbytes of dissatisfaction so that when POWboy goes down in flames _again_, Mr. Rove can point to his own wise council and say “if only John had listened to me…” This will help Rove achieve more $$$ in the 2012 election cycle. Did you read the actual exchange? He spends most of the interview trashing Obama, and only comes up with the anti-McCain soundbite when pressed by the interviewer. I don’t think it was a pre-planned statement. I don’t really buy the Rove as super-genius for whom everything is planned and for whom every seeming mistake is actually part of some meta-strategy. I don’t think there’s anyone who can parse every statement they make in the public eye in such a way to constantly avoid giving the occasional damaging soundbite. Certainly I’ve haven’t seen anyone pull it off in the decade or so I’ve been following national politics. Ultra-savy politicians like Clinton can’t do it, politicians like Bush who make every effort to remain “on message” and respond to every question with a prepared soundbite can’t do it, and I don’t buy that Rove can do it either. He screwed up, wasn’t prepared for Wallace’s question and so responded with a watered down but truthful statement, figuring he could sound less partisan, not realizing, at least until it was out of his mouth, that a “Karl Rove calls McCain a liar” soundbite would be on Obama’s Christmas list of things he’d like to get this year, but didn’t really think would show up under the tree. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-says-mccain-attack-ads-go-too-far/463593/13 "2008-09-14T23:04:10Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > I don’t really buy the Rove as super-genius for whom everything is planned and for whom every seeming mistake is actually part of some meta-strategy. I don’t think there’s anyone who can parse every statement they make in the public eye in such a way to constantly avoid giving the occasional damaging soundbite. Certainly I’ve haven’t seen anyone pull it off in the decade or so I’ve been following national politics. Ultra-savy politicians like Clinton can’t do it, politicians like Bush who make every effort to remain “on message” and respond to every question with a prepared soundbite can’t do it, and I don’t buy that Rove can do it either. Exactly, thank you. Rove is good at what he does, no doubt, but he’s not some kind of transcendentally intelligent evil genius. Now that he’s doing public commentary, he’s going to make a lot more blunders like this. Or at least, he will until his image as evil genius is tarnished enough that no one notices anymore. But for now, we give thanks for this gift that he has given us. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-says-mccain-attack-ads-go-too-far/463593/14 "2008-09-14T23:27:14Z")
Rove is not a genius. He is a man of average intelligence who simply has no inhibitions whatsoever. That isn’t genius, that’s a sociopath. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-says-mccain-attack-ads-go-too-far/463593/15 "2008-09-14T23:55:17Z")
If he says McCain’s ads go too far, that only means he thinks they’re backfiring. That’s a judgment only about their effectiveness, not their honorability. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-says-mccain-attack-ads-go-too-far/463593/16 "2008-09-15T00:11:04Z")
He’s shedding crocodile tears from one eye while scrutinizing the copy for tomorrow’s reprehensible spots with the other. It doesn’t matter what he says on the Sunday punditry forums or in a throwaway bit in the middle of the hour on an afternoon cable-channel bloviation show; those are for specialized audiences, while the average voter will neither hear nor see anything he says. The ads, meanwhile, will keep airing. It’s just bullshit cover noise. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-says-mccain-attack-ads-go-too-far/463593/17 "2008-09-15T00:58:58Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > He’s shedding crocodile tears from one eye while scrutinizing the copy for tomorrow’s reprehensible spots with the other. It doesn’t matter what he says on the Sunday punditry forums or in a throwaway bit in the middle of the hour on an afternoon cable-channel bloviation show; those are for specialized audiences, while the average voter will neither hear nor see anything he says. The ads, meanwhile, will keep airing. It’s just bullshit cover noise. That few people hear the actual quote in context is sort of the point of these soundbite mini-scandals. Almost no one will watch the actual clip of the interview, but the Obama campaign will make sure everyone hears “Rove called McCain a liar”. Similarly, how many people went back and actually saw the quote that originated the “Gore invented the internet” meme. Probably only a small portion of the electorate, but the Bush 2000 campaign made sure that everyone in the US heard their version of it, and it helped them spin the tale of Gore as a serial exaggerator. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-says-mccain-attack-ads-go-too-far/463593/18 "2008-09-15T01:08:25Z")
If only the candidates got to pick the way soundbites would be edited. The choice to make the pig-lipstick nonsense an “issue”, one which has a number of pretty intelligent people thinking “Obama called Palin a pig”, was made by Fox. Do you think MSNBC would do the same favor for Obama that Fox did for McCain? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-says-mccain-attack-ads-go-too-far/463593/19 "2008-09-15T01:49:16Z")
When Satan says you’re going too far then you’re truely going too far. Btw love the irony of the donate to McCain’s “compliance fund” ads in this thread. Talk about creepy. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-says-mccain-attack-ads-go-too-far/463593/20 "2008-09-15T01:54:38Z")
Wow. It’s like the BTK killer saying “Dude, that’s _sick_!” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-says-mccain-attack-ads-go-too-far/463593.md?page=2)