# Karl Rove -- the pure essence of Republicanism **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 31, 2019, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-the-pure-essence-of-republicanism/834829 "2019-05-31T13:39:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-the-pure-essence-of-republicanism/834829/1 "2019-05-31T13:39:32Z")
> [@Stupid Republican idea of the day](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/41198): > > There needs to be space for Karl Rove in there. It was he who developed the idea of a[permanent Republican majority](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/what-karl-rove-really-had_b_60947). Its his playbook that Mitch is following so successfully. > > ETA: I mostly included the link as an introduction to Rove’s tactics, but reading it fully its amazing how prescient it given it was written 9 years before Trump’s election. When this ungodly and hideous criminal was mentioned, I had to click Reply. But Rove merits his very own thread. In 2012 Rove was described as “the de facto leader of the Republican Party.” [Here’s an article from 2004 about Karl Rove.](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2004/11/karl-rove-in-a-corner/303537/) > [@](#): > > The anecdote points up one of the paradoxes of Rove’s career. Articles like Slater’s are surprisingly few, yet as I interviewed people who knew Rove, they brought up examples of unscrupulous tactics—some of them breathtaking—as a matter of course. > > A typical instance occurred in the hard-fought 1996 race for a seat on the Alabama Supreme Court between Rove’s client, Harold See, then a University of Alabama law professor, and the Democratic incumbent, Kenneth Ingram. According to someone who worked for him, Rove, dissatisfied with the campaign’s progress, had flyers printed up—absent any trace of who was behind them—viciously attacking See and his family. “We were trying to craft a message to reach some of the blue-collar, lower-middle-class people,” the staffer says. “You’d roll it up, put a rubber band around it, and paperboy it at houses late at night. I was told, ‘Do not hand it to anybody, do not tell anybody who you’re with, and if you can, borrow a car that doesn’t have your tags.’ So I borrowed a buddy’s car [and drove] down the middle of the street … I had Hefty bags stuffed full of these rolled-up pamphlets, and I’d cruise the designated neighborhoods, throwing these things out with both hands and literally driving with my knees.” The ploy left Rove’s opponent at a loss. Ingram’s staff realized that it would be fruitless to try to persuade the public that the See campaign was attacking its own candidate in order “to create a backlash against the Democrat,” as Joe Perkins, who worked for Ingram, put it to me. Presumably the public would believe that Democrats were spreading terrible rumors about See and his family. “They just beat you down to your knees,” Ingram said of being on the receiving end of Rove’s attacks. See won the race. I mentioned Rove and an incident like this in an OP several years ago. The SDMB’s Most Intelligent Republican™ rampaged into the thread defending Karl Rove. I was taken aback — what legalistic tricks was this right-wing Doper relying on for his non sequiturs? It turned out he was defending Rove despite knowing zero about his biography and _without even bothering to read OP._ (That’s when I learned this esteemed right-winger was, well, a **Brickhead**.) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-the-pure-essence-of-republicanism/834829/2 "2019-05-31T14:02:30Z")
Karl Rove saw what Lee Atwater did in the '80s and thought “Oh, ho! I bet I can do better than that!” Fucking ratfuckers. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-the-pure-essence-of-republicanism/834829/3 "2019-05-31T15:23:18Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Karl Rove saw what Lee Atwater did in the '80s and thought “Oh, ho! I bet I can do better than that!” Fucking ratfuckers. You have a grimmer precedent; the southern states for around a hundred year long period from the 1870’s to the 1970’s. For all those decades, they were essentially a one-party government. Democrats got elected and ran the government at every level. Once they had control of everything, the Democrats were able to use their power to make sure they stayed in power. Legislators could enact laws that guaranteed them staying in power, governors would enforce those laws, judges appointed by the Democrats upheld the laws, and bureaucrats appointed the Democrats applied the laws. And if there were any discontent, there was a threat of violence to suppress it - which would be supported by law enforcement. This all happened right here in America; there’s nothing magical about our political system that protects us. What finally broke the system was nothing internal. One-party rule only ended when the federal government began intervening in state and local politics. So if the Republicans manage succeed in setting up a similar one-party regime in this country (which I think it’s clear they’re trying to do) there’ll be no higher level of government to fix the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-the-pure-essence-of-republicanism/834829/4 "2019-05-31T16:08:50Z")
So… you started a new thread about Karl Rove, who’s been pitted at least a dozen times, because…? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-the-pure-essence-of-republicanism/834829/5 "2019-05-31T16:17:21Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > So… you started a new thread about Karl Rove, who’s been pitted at least a dozen times, because…? …the last thread was over six years ago? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-the-pure-essence-of-republicanism/834829/6 "2019-05-31T16:25:48Z")
The events and sources mentioned in the OP are even older. Are we going to re-Pit Hitler today, too? ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-the-pure-essence-of-republicanism/834829/7 "2019-05-31T17:36:15Z")
It clearly just depends on how people feel when they get up on any particular day. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-the-pure-essence-of-republicanism/834829/8 "2019-05-31T17:37:17Z")
And if you haven’t noticed, there has been huge lack of originality in the pit over the past few years. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-the-pure-essence-of-republicanism/834829/9 "2019-05-31T17:51:07Z")
As I said in my post that inspired the OP, the vision that Rove had 10 years back is being made a reality today. So it isn’t just ancient history. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-the-pure-essence-of-republicanism/834829/10 "2019-05-31T18:30:52Z")
Karl Rove has a regular weekly op-ed in the Wall St. Journal, which is mainly good for comic relief as Karl mis-prognosticates elections and doles out dubious and useless strategic advice for both major parties. Let’s just say that his crystal ball has not cleared up much from when he was predicting that Mitt Romney would be our next President. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-the-pure-essence-of-republicanism/834829/11 "2019-05-31T18:58:47Z")
It’s not what he predicted that prompted the OP; it’s what he worked for (that is now bearing fruit). But of course you understood that. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-the-pure-essence-of-republicanism/834829/12 "2019-05-31T19:22:48Z")
I have long understood that you are a mildly annoying dingbat. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-the-pure-essence-of-republicanism/834829/13 "2019-05-31T19:27:27Z")
Hey, go fuck yourself, asshole. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-the-pure-essence-of-republicanism/834829/14 "2019-05-31T20:05:55Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The events and sources mentioned in the OP are even older. Are we going to re-Pit Hitler today, too? I read an article once that said he was bad, sure let’s Pit Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-the-pure-essence-of-republicanism/834829/15 "2019-05-31T20:50:19Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I read an article once that said he was bad, sure let’s Pit Hitler. I read an article that said he was just misunderstood. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-the-pure-essence-of-republicanism/834829/16 "2019-05-31T21:03:15Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I read an article once that said he was bad, sure let’s Pit Hitler. Just don’t go overboard and start comparing him to Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2019, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-the-pure-essence-of-republicanism/834829/17 "2019-05-31T23:51:27Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > It’s not what he predicted that prompted the OP; it’s what he worked for (that is now bearing fruit). > > But of course you understood that. I think it’s useful to remind people that the Republican party didn’t go bad in 2016. Trump may be the worst the GOP has produced (so far) but he wouldn’t be President if it wasn’t for the long line of Republicans like Rove that prepared the way for him. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2019, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-the-pure-essence-of-republicanism/834829/18 "2019-06-01T00:02:18Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think it’s useful to remind people that the Republican party didn’t go bad in 2016. Trump may be the worst the GOP has produced (so far) but he wouldn’t be President if it wasn’t for the long line of Republicans like Rove that prepared the way for him. Exactly. The GOP has been rotting away since the late 1980s. Trump is the symptom, not the cause. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2019, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-the-pure-essence-of-republicanism/834829/19 "2019-06-01T02:50:09Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Exactly. > > The GOP has been rotting away since the late 1980s. Trump is the symptom, not the cause. I’d say at least 1980. Reagan was a nice guy but he had no business being President. And he started us down this current path. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2019, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-the-pure-essence-of-republicanism/834829/20 "2019-06-01T08:29:13Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The events and sources mentioned in the OP are even older. Are we going to re-Pit Hitler today, too? Hitler’s been dead for 74 years, but might merit mention today in connection with the Charlottesville demonstration. “Were there really good people on both sides?” The Nazis were and are a despicable Party. Karl Rove, one-time leader of the Republican Party, is still worth mention today: Believe it or not, many Americans don’t understand that the Republicans are a despicable Party. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karl-rove-the-pure-essence-of-republicanism/834829.md?page=2)