# Karma: the pure horseshit concept **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 20, 2017, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karma-the-pure-horseshit-concept/796783 "2017-09-20T04:02:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karma-the-pure-horseshit-concept/796783/21 "2017-09-20T16:31:20Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > There’s an alternate version of Karma that seems to fit reality better. Basically, there needs to be a perfect balance between good stuff and bad stuff, and causing too much of one will cause the opposite to befall you. That is to say, doing good things will cause bad things to happen to you, while doing bad things will cause good things to happen to you. And thus light/dark energy is conserved. > > Not sure how much of that I believe, but like I said, it does seem to fit reality better. I’m kinda wondering why the OP thinks Dorothy was reincarnated into a herring or cockroach, or why Dorothy was pre-destined to be a murderess or child molester … if she was supposed to be charitable with her human-life, then she would have been reincarnated into a god, with a different pre-destiny, perhaps the new goddess of destroying Barbuda with a hurricane … Perhaps the OP is confusing Christian principles with something strictly of the Hindu religion … there’s a difference in how these two religions treat “evil” … ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karma-the-pure-horseshit-concept/796783/22 "2017-09-20T17:21:21Z")
There’s another way of looking at karma. In Sanskrit ‘karma’ simply means ‘action’, and by extension ‘the results of action’. So physical actions produce physical effects, and that’s also karma. If you put your finger in a flame and it gets burned, that’s karma - the effect of that action - which returns immediately. If you live an unhealthy lifestyle and the result is that you get sick, that’s the karma of living an unhealthy lifestyle coming back to you after a few years. It’s not at all mystical at this level, it’s nothing other than physical cause and effect. It gets more abstract when you get into subtler actions on a moral level. But however saintly you may have been for however many years, that’s not going to protect you from the karma of a burned finger, or from days of pain, if you stick your finger in a flame. If the person mentioned by the OP had a stroke, that’s not necessarily or even probably the bad karma of a previous life, but the karma of high cholesterol (or whatever) in this life. Good deeds don’t give you immunity from cause and effect at any level. On a slightly more subtle level, the fact that people looked after her and cared about her is some little return of the karma of her good actions, in an obvious way. On an even more subtle level, those actions may result in being born in a very good situation in her next life. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karma-the-pure-horseshit-concept/796783/23 "2017-09-20T18:14:31Z")
If you actively use a position of power to screw over everyone you can, you might someday get screwed over in return. Or you might become President. It seems that you in fact can have terrible karma, as long as you have enough security to prevent people from physically killing you in revenge, and will have a long life. Might even make it to high office… ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karma-the-pure-horseshit-concept/796783/24 "2017-09-20T18:28:25Z")
Right. Imagine if she’d been a hateful bitch her whole life. Then instead of having to spend 8 years in a hospital bed surrounded by her friends and loved ones, she’d get to spend 8 years in a hospital bed alone and staring at the ceiling. Sure, there’s no such thing as karma, if by karma you mean “people get what they deserve”. No, people don’t get what they deserve. Deserve’s got nothing to do with it. And the notion of next lives or previous lives is obvious nonsense that can be dismissed easily. Yet there is also the reality of cause and effect. Point enough guns at people and demand enough wallets, and you’re much more likely to encounter somebody who shoots back. But you can also be walking down the sidewalk one day and a stray bullet comes out of nowhere and kills you. Yeah, that’s cause and effect, because the bullet didn’t literally come out of nowhere, somebody fired that bullet. But the cause of getting hit wasn’t you walking down the sidewalk and you should have known not to do that so it’s your fault you got shot. Do horrible people have success in life? Sure they do. But what does that mean for us, as a guide to action? Does that mean that you should start screwing people over because that’s the way to be successful? And you’ll be happier if you do? But you’re not Donald Trump. The odds are much more likely that you’ll end up screwing yourself than landing on the top. And these driven people are often miserable, because their success never brings them happiness, it’s compulsive behavior. But yes, there are also horrible people who are having a lot of fun. There are decent people who suffer. But unless you’re a sociopath being a horrible person is very likely to leave you miserable and alone rather than sitting on top of stacks of money surrounded by beautiful ladies. ---
**Author:** ![Greathouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greathouse/32/2992_2.png) [@Greathouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greathouse)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karma-the-pure-horseshit-concept/796783/25 "2017-09-20T19:08:02Z")
Karma just means that everyone I treat like shit has it coming. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karma-the-pure-horseshit-concept/796783/26 "2017-09-20T20:47:33Z")
> [@Greathouse](#): > > Karma just means that everyone I treat like shit has it coming. That’s fucking Zen! ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karma-the-pure-horseshit-concept/796783/27 "2017-09-20T22:02:39Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > I’m reminded of that character in Bablyon five…the assistant to the woman ambassador Delean? He took great comfort in the fact the universe was NOT fair but random…otherwise that would mean we somehow deserved all the misery we got…one of the great scenes of Sci Fi IMO It wasn’t Lennier (the alien assistant to Delenn) who said that, it was Marcus, the human ranger who was played by Jason Carter. It was from season 3, episode 13, “A Late Delivery from Avalon.” > [@Marcus Cole](#): > > I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair. Then I thought, ‘wouldn’t it be much worse if life _were_ fair, and all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them?’ So now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe. I agree with this philosophy, FWIW. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karma-the-pure-horseshit-concept/796783/28 "2017-09-20T22:48:40Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > There’s another way of looking at karma. In Sanskrit ‘karma’ simply means ‘action’, and by extension ‘the results of action’. > > So physical actions produce physical effects, and that’s also karma. If you put your finger in a flame and it gets burned, that’s karma - the effect of that action - which returns immediately. If you live an unhealthy lifestyle and the result is that you get sick, that’s the karma of living an unhealthy lifestyle coming back to you after a few years. It’s not at all mystical at this level, it’s nothing other than physical cause and effect. > > It gets more abstract when you get into subtler actions on a moral level. But however saintly you may have been for however many years, that’s not going to protect you from the karma of a burned finger, or from days of pain, if you stick your finger in a flame. If the person mentioned by the OP had a stroke, that’s not necessarily or even probably the bad karma of a previous life, but the karma of high cholesterol (or whatever) in this life. Good deeds don’t give you immunity from cause and effect at any level. > > On a slightly more subtle level, the fact that people looked after her and cared about her is some little return of the karma of her good actions, in an obvious way. On an even more subtle level, those actions may result in being born in a very good situation in her next life. Thank you for this. The concept of Karma is much more subtle than some sort of cosmic tit-for-tat scorekeeping system. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karma-the-pure-horseshit-concept/796783/29 "2017-09-20T23:41:15Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > I’m kinda wondering why the OP thinks Dorothy was reincarnated into a herring or cockroach, or why Dorothy was pre-destined to be a murderess or child molester … uh, wut? > [@watchwolf49](#): > > Perhaps the OP is confusing Christian principles with something strictly of the Hindu religion … there’s a difference in how these two religions treat “evil” … No batty conflation of religions here - not even a road to go down, to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karma-the-pure-horseshit-concept/796783/30 "2017-09-21T02:30:48Z")
If the world was fair we wouldn’t need concepts like karma. It’s there so that when unfair things happen, or we just feel unrewarded, we can imagine that at some future time it might all balance out. Also when we see bad shit happen to a bad guy, it’s kind of nice to imagine that that was because the universe “cared” on some level. We try to ignore the many counter-examples. A lot of hope and “bright side” messages don’t make any objective sense, but they can persist because it’s bad karma to criticize positive messages 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karma-the-pure-horseshit-concept/796783/31 "2017-09-21T04:34:03Z")
I believe y’all have it a little backward. The ‘you must have been a bastard in your last life to have this happen to you!’, thinking is by those with a pretty naive concept of what karma is and how it works. They’ve just heard,‘what goes around, comes around’, and that encompasses the entirety of their depth of knowledge. Persons who actually ascribe to karma, and understand it’s nuances would not see it this way. Instead of seeing the sufferer as being punished by actions of a passed life, they would be seeing someone sure to be richly rewarded in their next life. Very much two sides of the same coin, in some ways. But a major difference in perception and intent. Those suffering great trials in this life are simply considered to be on the ‘short path’ to enlightenment. Achieving it in one lifetime instead of many, though that one life may be filled with great suffering. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karma-the-pure-horseshit-concept/796783/32 "2017-09-21T05:14:49Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > I don’t think it’s widely accepted. Or even widely believed. Most people, I think, don’t believe it so much as wish it was true. All I hear them talk of karma is as what they hope will happen. I didn’t say it was accepted as a a cosmic principle. Karma is widely accepted as the doctrine within human society, that if one lives a life of good deeds, he will be repaid in kind during his lifetime. Like a sort of a fraternity of the virtuous, who recognize each other by their deeds in society, and favor each other. Something that works without the necessity of a higher power., merely as a byproduct of evolved human nature. That’s the way I see it, as do many of my non-believing acquaintances. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karma-the-pure-horseshit-concept/796783/33 "2017-09-21T06:51:20Z")
The best description of karma I have come across is in this passage in the Yoga Vasistha: > [@](#): > > In this world whatever is gained is gained only by self-effort; where failure is encountered it is seen that there has been slackness in the effort. This is obvious; but what is called fate is fictitious and is not seen. > … >  Self-effort is of two categories: that of past births and that of this birth. The latter effectively counteracts the former. Fate is none other than self-effort of a past incarnation. There is constant conflict between these two in this incarnation; and that which is more powerful triumphs. >  Self-effort which is not in accord with the scriptures is motivated by delusion. When there is obstruction in the fruition of self-effort one should examine it to see if there is such deluded action, and if there is it should be immediately corrected. **There is no power greater than right action in the present**. Hence, one should take recourse to self-effort, grinding one’s teeth, and one should overcome evil by good and fate by present effort. > … >  One who says “Fate is directing me to do this” is brainless, and good fortune abandons him. Hence, by self-effort acquire wisdom and then realise that this self-effort is not without its own end, in the direct realisation of the truth. If this dreadful source of evil named laziness were not found on earth, who would ever be illiterate and poor? It is because laziness is found on earth that people live the life of animals, miserable and poverty-stricken. > … >  As is the effort so is the fruit, O Rama. … What is called fate or divine will is nothing other than the action or self-effort of the past. The present is infinitely more potent than the past. They indeed are fools who are satisfied with the fruits of their past effort (which they regard as divine will) and do not engage themselves in self-effort now. > … >  Sometimes it happens that without effort someone makes a great gain. … This is certainly neither an accident nor some kind of divine act, but the fruit of the one’s self-effort in a past birth. Sometimes it happens that a farmer’s efforts are made fruitless by a hailstorm: surely, the hailstorm’s power was greater than the farmer’s effort and the farmer should put forth greater effort now. He should not grieve over the inevitable loss. If such grief is justified, why should he not weep daily over the inevitability of death? >  The wise man should of course know what is capable of attainment by self-effort and what is not. **It is, however, ignorance to attribute all this to an outside agency and to say that “God sends me to heaven or to hell” or that “an outside agency makes me do this or that” - such an ignorant person should be shunned.** >  One should free oneself from likes and dislikes and engage oneself in righteous self-effort and reach the supreme truth, knowing that self-effort alone is another name for divine will. We only ridicule the fatalist. > … >  The Holy ones emphasise: persistently tread the path that leads to the eternal good. And the wise seeker knows: the fruit of my endeavors will be commensurate with the intensity of my self-effort and neither fate nor a god can ordain it otherwise. Indeed, such self-effort alone is responsible for whatever man gets here; when he is sunk in unhappiness, to console him people suggest that it is his fate. … No one has seen such a fate or a god, but everyone has experienced how an action (good or evil) leads to a result (good or evil). Hence, right from one’s childhood one should endeavor to promote one’s true good by a keen intelligent study of the scriptures, by having the company of the holy ones and by right self-effort. > … >  In the mind of man are numerous latent tendencies, and these tendencies give rise to various actions - physical, verbal and mental. Surely, one’s actions are in strict accordance with these tendencies, it cannot be otherwise. Such is the course of action: action is non-different from the most potent among latent tendencies, and these tendencies are non-different from the mind and the man is non-different from the mind. > … > Rama asked: >  Holy sir, if the latent tendencies brought forward from a previous birth impel me to act in the present, where is freedom of action? > Vasistha said: >  Rama, the tendencies brought forward from past incarnations are of two kinds - pure and impure. The pure ones lead you towards liberation, and the impure ones invite problems.\*\* You are indeed consciousness itself, not inert physical matter. You are not impelled to action by anything other than yourself.\*\* Hence you are free to strengthen the pure latent tendencies in preference to the impure ones. The impure ones have to be abandoned gradually and the mind turned away from them little by little, lest there should be violent reaction. By encouraging the good tendencies to act repeatedly, strengthen them. The impure ones will weaken by disuse. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karma-the-pure-horseshit-concept/796783/34 "2017-09-21T14:28:23Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > I believe y’all have it a little backward. The ‘you must have been a bastard in your last life to have this happen to you!’, thinking is by those with a pretty naive concept of what karma is and how it works. They’ve just heard,‘what goes around, comes around’, and that encompasses the entirety of their depth of knowledge. > > Persons who actually ascribe to karma, and understand it’s nuances would not see it this way. Instead of seeing the sufferer as being punished by actions of a passed life, they would be seeing someone sure to be richly rewarded in their next life. Very much two sides of the same coin, in some ways. But a major difference in perception and intent. > > Those suffering great trials in this life are simply considered to be on the ‘short path’ to enlightenment. Achieving it in one lifetime instead of many, though that one life may be filled with great suffering. There’s that fucking Zen again … ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karma-the-pure-horseshit-concept/796783/35 "2017-09-21T14:52:21Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > I believe y’all have it a little backward. The ‘you must have been a bastard in your last life to have this happen to you!’, thinking is by those with a pretty naive concept of what karma is and how it works. They’ve just heard,‘what goes around, comes around’, and that encompasses the entirety of their depth of knowledge. > > Persons who actually ascribe to karma, and understand it’s nuances would not see it this way. Instead of seeing the sufferer as being punished by actions of a passed life, they would be seeing someone sure to be richly rewarded in their next life. Very much two sides of the same coin, in some ways. But a major difference in perception and intent. > > Those suffering great trials in this life are simply considered to be on the ‘short path’ to enlightenment. Achieving it in one lifetime instead of many, though that one life may be filled with great suffering. The “nuanced way” is still accurately described by the thread title. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karma-the-pure-horseshit-concept/796783/36 "2017-09-21T17:30:04Z")
> [@Eddie The Horrible](#): > > About reincarnation - there is nothing more bothersome, even when someone says it to you half in jest, when something shitty happens to you and they moronically quip “hm, you must have done wrong in a previous life”. What if something good happens to me…I certainly never hear anything about my having done something good in a previous life. I understand, yeah, being good isn’t sexy enough, but when something shitty happens to me, the first thought _sure isn’t_ “oh…damn - I shouldn’t have driven back and forth over that family of four in my Model T.” I usually respond with “I shouldn’t have set fire to the nunnery.” > [@GreenWyvern](#): > > There’s another way of looking at karma. In Sanskrit ‘karma’ simply means ‘action’, and by extension ‘the results of action’. > > So physical actions produce physical effects, and that’s also karma. If you put your finger in a flame and it gets burned, that’s karma - the effect of that action - which returns immediately. If you live an unhealthy lifestyle and the result is that you get sick, that’s the karma of living an unhealthy lifestyle coming back to you after a few years. It’s not at all mystical at this level, it’s nothing other than physical cause and effect. > > It gets more abstract when you get into subtler actions on a moral level. But however saintly you may have been for however many years, that’s not going to protect you from the karma of a burned finger, or from days of pain, if you stick your finger in a flame. If the person mentioned by the OP had a stroke, that’s not necessarily or even probably the bad karma of a previous life, but the karma of high cholesterol (or whatever) in this life. Good deeds don’t give you immunity from cause and effect at any level. > > On a slightly more subtle level, the fact that people looked after her and cared about her is some little return of the karma of her good actions, in an obvious way. On an even more subtle level, those actions may result in being born in a very good situation in her next life. My philosophy on this is similar. If you work to make the world better, then you live in a better world. Karma does have social consequences. If someone is an asshole or selfish, or never helps out others, then when they find themselves needing a helping hand (as most of us do at some point in our life) there will be no one there for them. If someone is kind and generous of both spirit and material things, then when they fall upon a hard time, there may be others there to repay their kindnesses. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karma-the-pure-horseshit-concept/796783/37 "2017-09-21T17:37:16Z")
When you point at something and start jumping up and down and piling on about how it doesn’t exist it says more about you than the universe. And that’s what Karma is about. But you need to wait to see it. ---
**Author:** ![ThisSpaceForRent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thisspaceforrent/32/345_2.png) [@ThisSpaceForRent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisSpaceForRent)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karma-the-pure-horseshit-concept/796783/38 "2017-09-21T18:30:23Z")
When I was on the road, following the Grateful Dead on my annual Spring Summer sabbatical, I came across one of my favorite stickers ever… \*\*My Karma ran over your Dogma \*\* My “tour-mate” and I were both server/bartenders in a “white linen” high dollar eatery. We lived on tips and “Tip Karma” …After a few weeks on tour, camping nightly, we were, lets say a bit “Road worn”, and hungry. We stopped at a small Truck stop/ diner near Upper Sandusky OH, oddly SOUTH of Sandusky. We had GREAT burgers/sides/beverages, when our bill came we left a 50$ bill on a 22$ tab and left. The waitress came running out to our vehicle waving the change, approx 28$…Nope you lady, we replied, that is your tip! She was beside herself with excitement hugged us both and proclaimed this to be the largest tip she had ever received…We ended the tour knowing if would come back around to us once we returned, and it did! ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karma-the-pure-horseshit-concept/796783/39 "2017-09-21T18:36:52Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > Thank you for this. The concept of Karma is much more subtle than some sort of cosmic tit-for-tat scorekeeping system. I’ve rationalized karmic principles as being more societal, rather than individual. Undoubtedly, the great works that the subject woman did through her life spawned benefits, happiness, and betterment to others in the ‘pay it forward sense’. The individualistic tit-for-tat fallacy arises when karmic influence is expected to transcend direct functional cause-effect mechanisms. Ugh, that’s an awkward description… …What I mean by that is that there is no mechanism for a good deed done in societal relationships to have a resultant effect in whether or not a blood clot appears in some random place in your body. You’re just looking for the karmic effects good or bad, in the wrong place. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2017, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/karma-the-pure-horseshit-concept/796783/40 "2017-09-21T19:06:49Z")
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