# Kashrut question and some helal **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 22, 2006, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kashrut-question-and-some-helal/377449 "2006-10-22T16:10:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kashrut-question-and-some-helal/377449/21 "2006-10-23T03:02:10Z")
[QUOTE=caturday] African-American please, it’s not spelled either way. You have to use Arabic to correctly spell the term. Less pedantry and more signal. [/quote] You are completely incorrect. That is, your assertion is 100% wrong. In English, the word is spelled [_halal_](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/halal). It’s not pedantry and it’s quite meaningful. > [@](#): > > The point of my question was meant to be “Why is it wrong to mix milk with meat but it’s not okay to mix eggs with the layers of the eggs?” o\_O That’s a pretty good question, actually. The why of it is simply that the Rabbis who developed the rules for [_kashrut_](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/kashrut) did not consider that such a requirement would be indicated. > [@](#): > > So it’s okay to cook their young’ns with their parents? Apparently so. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kashrut-question-and-some-helal/377449/22 "2006-10-23T21:24:44Z")
[QUOTE=caturday] Exodus 23:19, Do not cook a kid in its’ mother’s milk. The reason why observant Jewish citizens don’t have cheeseburgers. Does this dictate extend to dishes which combine eggs and poultry? [/QUOTE] Just to go back to this question - the milk/meat mixture applies to the meat of kosher mammals. Thus a beef/cheese mixture is prohibited on these grounds. A pork/cheese mixture would be prohibited on the grounds that the pig itself is unkosher, but the mixture would not incur the more stringent prohibition of milk/meat. Under Biblical law, poultry is not meat. However, it has for centuries been considered meat by Rabbinic decree. The reasoning was that poultry meat is similar enough to “real” meat that one might get confused and actually come to permit real milk/meat mixtures. Anyone who keeps kosher today adheres to this rule. Fish was not considered similar enough to “real” meat and hence was not included in the decree. Fish (and eggs) are considered pareve (meaning “neutral” - not milk or meat). Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kashrut-question-and-some-helal/377449/23 "2006-10-23T21:43:54Z")
[QUOTE=caturday] The point of my question was meant to be “Why is it wrong to mix milk with meat but it’s okay to mix eggs with the layers of the eggs?” [/QUOTE] The problem is, we don’t know why we’re supposed to keep the kosher laws, other than that God said so. There have been various explanations offered at different times (that kashrut is a health code, that it separates Jews from their neighbors, that it minimizes animals’ suffering, or that it separates symbols of life and death, and many others), but they’re all speculation. No explanation is given in the Bible of the purpose of these laws. Incidentally, the milk/meat laws also apply to any meat (including poultry, but not fish or eggs) and any dairy product. So it’s not kosher to mix lamb with cheese made from cow’s milk. And there’s no kosher law saying you can’t cook a cow and its calf together- you could make a meatloaf with ground beef from the mother cow and ground veal from the calf, and it could be kosher (assuming the meat from both animals was kosher, and that no dairy or non-kosher meat was added). ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kashrut-question-and-some-helal/377449/24 "2006-10-23T23:01:25Z")
[QUOTE=Anne Neville] And there’s no kosher law saying you can’t cook a cow and its calf together- you could make a meatloaf with ground beef from the mother cow and ground veal from the calf, and it could be kosher (assuming the meat from both animals was kosher, and that no dairy or non-kosher meat was added). [/QUOTE] There is, however, a prohibition on _slaughtering_ a mother cow and it’s calf on the same day (Lev 22:28). Zev ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kashrut-question-and-some-helal/377449/25 "2006-10-23T23:20:23Z")
[QUOTE=zev\_steinhardt] There is, however, a prohibition on _slaughtering_ a mother cow and it’s calf on the same day (Lev 22:28). [/QUOTE] Indeed? I had a discussion once with a Reform Rabbi-he and his wife caught me eatting my last cheesburger before I converted, BTW 🙂 - that a calf now wouldn’t have been anywhere near it’s parent’s milk. He explained that it was symbolic of life and death, milk and blood. I thought of someone who had once described to me gleefully how pigs screamed when some were killed in front of the pen. Made me want to join up right there. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2006, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kashrut-question-and-some-helal/377449/26 "2006-10-24T00:19:21Z")
[QUOTE=zev\_steinhardt] There is, however, a prohibition on _slaughtering_ a mother cow and it’s calf on the same day (Lev 22:28). [/QUOTE] Interesting! I let Empire or Aaron’s Best handle that end of keeping kosher. I presume they (or whoever actually slaughters the animals) are doing something to keep track and make sure they don’t violate that rule? I shudder to think what would happen if I tried to slaughter an animal myself, given that I managed to pull lots of muscles giving one of my cats a bath, and also given that I once cut myself badly (lots of blood and a scar that’s still with me 10 years later) using a butter knife. I’ve heard speculation that a benefit of the kosher laws is that fewer Jews slaughter animals themselves (because they’re not qualified as _shochetim_ or kosher butchers), and that makes Jews less bloodthirsty and violent. I’m all for not having to slaughter cows or wring chickens’ necks for myself 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2006, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kashrut-question-and-some-helal/377449/27 "2006-10-24T04:18:41Z")
> [@](#): > > This day are (all) things good and pure made lawful unto you. The food of the People of the Book is lawful unto you and yours is lawful unto them. Interesting… For Jews, this is pretty straightforward, since the Jews follow dietary laws which are stricter than those of Islam, anyway. But what about Christians? Christians have no problems with eating pork, so pork is (or at least, can be) “food of the People of the Book”. But pork is, so far as I know, absolutely forbidden to Muslims (except, I presume, in cases of emergency, where it’s a choice between pork and starvation). So which rule applies, here? ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2006, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kashrut-question-and-some-helal/377449/28 "2006-10-24T05:22:35Z")
[QUOTE=Chronos] Christians have no problems with eating pork, so pork is (or at least, can be) “food of the People of the Book”. [/QUOTE] _Most_ Christians have no problem eating pork. [http://www.themodernreligion.com/misc/hh/pork.html](http://www.themodernreligion.com/misc/hh/pork.html) > [@](#): > > Is Pork Forbidden to Muslims Only? > > The Jews and Christians are also forbidden from eating pork. Here is a quote from the Old Testament to that effect: \*“And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.”\*Deuteronomy 14:8 > > Many Christians believe that this verse was directed only at the Jews. But Jesus himself says during the Sermon on the Mount; _“Think not that I am come to destroy the Law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.”_ Some Christians say that, after a vision by St. Peter, God cleansed all animals and made them fit and lawful for human consumption. If ALL animals are cleansed by Peter’s vision, this includes dogs, cats, vultures, and rats: but you just don’t see people getting excited about a cat-meat sandwich like they do over barbecued pork or bacon. Others say that it was Paul who rescinded the law forbidding pork to humans, in order to appease the Romans, who enjoyed the taste of pig-meat. Many excuses have been given, but none are very sound. ---
**Author:** ![yBeayf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e274bd/32.png) [@yBeayf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yBeayf)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2006, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kashrut-question-and-some-helal/377449/29 "2006-10-24T14:02:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Most Christians have no problem eating pork. Your citation there doesn’t show that pork is forbidden to Christians, just that some random Muslim thinks it should be. And as a general statement “Christians have no problem with pork” works – the only groups I can think of that don’t eat it are Seventh-Day Adventists and Ethiopian Orthodox, and the latter will admit that it’s merely a custom rather than a religious law, i.e. they do not condemn other Christians for eating pork. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kashrut-question-and-some-helal/377449.md?page=1)