# Katie and Bill \[Prince William and Kate surnames\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 10, 2014, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katie-and-bill-prince-william-and-kate-surnames/683376 "2014-03-10T20:02:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Inna\_Minnit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Inna\_Minnit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inna_Minnit)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katie-and-bill-prince-william-and-kate-surnames/683376/1 "2014-03-10T20:02:32Z")
I was reading some dreck about Prince William and Kate. It called them the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge. Later it referred to them as the Cambridges. That can’t be correct, can it? Their last name, if one were to use it, is Windsor, isn’t it? What is the correct address for them? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katie-and-bill-prince-william-and-kate-surnames/683376/2 "2014-03-10T20:06:30Z")
Prince William doesn’t have a last name. Not everyone does, some people even in America have a single name as their legal name. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katie-and-bill-prince-william-and-kate-surnames/683376/3 "2014-03-10T20:31:19Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Prince William doesn’t have a last name. Not everyone does, some people even in America have a single name as their legal name. He’s like Cher. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katie-and-bill-prince-william-and-kate-surnames/683376/4 "2014-03-10T20:34:03Z")
What’s on all their army ID in place of a last name? When Louis XVI was overthrown, he wasn’t called Louis Bourbon, but, going back to the royal house’s founder, Louis Capet. Then they de-capetated him. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katie-and-bill-prince-william-and-kate-surnames/683376/5 "2014-03-10T20:35:58Z")
Royal people don’t generally use surnames in the sense that we’re used to. Will has a bunch of given names (William Arthur Philip Louis) and some titles, but that’s all. Where a surname is needed, the place associated with a title is sometimes used. (So Cambridge in Will’s case.) His father Prince Charles (Prince of Wales) sometimes uses Wales as a surname, as did the late Princess Diana. Windsor is the name of the royal house, but that’s not really a personal name. It’s just a label for the current dynasty. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katie-and-bill-prince-william-and-kate-surnames/683376/6 "2014-03-10T20:44:13Z")
Were they not Prince and Princess, but only Duke and Duchess, they would be [Mountebatten-Windsors](http://www.royal.gov.uk/ThecurrentRoyalFamily/TheRoyalFamilyname/Overview.aspx). > [@](#): > > However, in 1960, The Queen and The Duke of Edinburgh decided that they would like their own direct descendants to be distinguished from the rest of the Royal Family (without changing the name of the Royal House), as Windsor is the surname used by all the male and unmarried female descendants of George V. > > It was therefore declared in the Privy Council that The Queen’s descendants, **other than those with the style of Royal Highness and the title of Prince/Princess** , or female descendants who marry, would carry the name of Mountbatten-Windsor. (emphasis mine) ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katie-and-bill-prince-william-and-kate-surnames/683376/7 "2014-03-10T20:44:56Z")
Some military uniforms require a name badge/tag. It could be plastic, metal or cloth. I believe both William and Harry wear one that says “Wales” when required. That being said, in 1960, Queen Elizabeth had declared that her offsprings’ last names would be “Montbatten-Windsor” in situations where they needed a surname. It sort of depends on how they’re addressed too. If their honorific is used, no last name is used. Example: His Royal Highness, William, Duke of Cambridge. [The Royal Family Name](https://www.royal.gov.uk/thecurrentroyalfamily/theroyalfamilyname/overview.aspx) ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katie-and-bill-prince-william-and-kate-surnames/683376/8 "2014-03-10T20:50:27Z")
Missed the edit window. The Duke of Cambridge’s full title is His Royal Highness The Duke of Cambridge KG KT. In his military life, The Duke is known as Flight Lieutenant William Wales. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katie-and-bill-prince-william-and-kate-surnames/683376/9 "2014-03-10T20:53:15Z")
Both William and Harry use Wales as a surname when they need one. William was enrolled in college as William Wales, and was William Wales in the Royal Air Force (where his nickname was “Billy the Fish”). Prince Harry is known as Captain Harry Wales in the military. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katie-and-bill-prince-william-and-kate-surnames/683376/10 "2014-03-10T20:57:07Z")
Thread title edited for clarity. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katie-and-bill-prince-william-and-kate-surnames/683376/11 "2014-03-10T21:24:59Z")
Apparently on formal signatures, [the Queen’s surname is “R”](http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/misc/txt/23v886k.jpg). Although it’s possible that this document was signed on Pirate Day. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katie-and-bill-prince-william-and-kate-surnames/683376/12 "2014-03-10T21:28:23Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Apparently on formal signatures, [the Queen’s surname is “R”](http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/misc/txt/23v886k.jpg). Although it’s possible that this document was signed on Pirate Day. 🙂 Privateer Day. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katie-and-bill-prince-william-and-kate-surnames/683376/13 "2014-03-10T21:45:17Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Apparently on formal signatures, [the Queen’s surname is “R”](http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/misc/txt/23v886k.jpg). Although it’s possible that this document was signed on Pirate Day. 🙂 “R” isn’t really her surname. It’s more like signing it as “Elizabeth the Queen”. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katie-and-bill-prince-william-and-kate-surnames/683376/14 "2014-03-10T22:13:17Z")
Elizabeth R = Elizabeth Regina (i.e., Queen Elizabeth). For male monarchs, R stands for Rex (king). The Prince of Wales usually signs as Charles P (Charles Princeps = Prince Charles). Victoria signed as Victoria RI (Victoria Regina Imperatrix = Queen-Empress). “The Cambridges” is just journalistic shorthand for people who don’t have a true surname. “The Windsors” would be both incorrect and indeterminate, as lots of people in the royal family could be the intended subject. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katie-and-bill-prince-william-and-kate-surnames/683376/15 "2014-03-10T22:19:25Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > “R” isn’t really her surname. It’s more like signing it as “Elizabeth the Queen”. You mean she uses “R” even when it’s **not** Talk-Like-a-Pirate Day? 😃 It’s actually more like signing it as a short form of _Elizabeth II, Dei Gratia Magnae Britanniae, Hiberniae et terrarum transmarinarum quae in ditione sunt Britannica Regina, Fidei Defensor_. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2014, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katie-and-bill-prince-william-and-kate-surnames/683376/16 "2014-03-10T23:27:45Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > …In his military life, The Duke is known as Flight Lieutenant William Wales. He specifically chose to retain “Wales” as his placeholder surname instead of switching to “Cambridge” after he got married (& was made a duke). His uncle, Prince Andrew, on the other hand went from being Lt. Windsor to Lt. York on his marriage (& being made Duke of York). > [@slash2k](#): > > …“The Cambridges” is just journalistic shorthand for people who don’t have a true surname. “The Windsors” would be both incorrect and indeterminate, as lots of people in the royal family could be the intended subject. Right, remember the War of the Waleses? The same shorthand can be used to describe any peerage couple not just royals. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katie-and-bill-prince-william-and-kate-surnames/683376/17 "2014-03-11T01:48:32Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > You mean she uses “R” even when it’s **not** Talk-Like-a-Pirate Day? 😃 It’s actually more like signing it as a short form of _Elizabeth II, Dei Gratia Magnae Britanniae, Hiberniae et terrarum transmarinarum quae in ditione sunt Britannica Regina, Fidei Defensor_. I think if it was Talk-Like-a-Pirate Day she’d sign “Elizabeth O.R.”, yeah? But yes, the GQ answer (this is still in GQ, right?) is that it’s a short form for all you mention above. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katie-and-bill-prince-william-and-kate-surnames/683376/18 "2014-03-11T05:32:30Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > “The Cambridges” is just journalistic shorthand for people who don’t have a true surname. “The Windsors” would be both incorrect and indeterminate, as lots of people in the royal family could be the intended subject. There’s a lot of people who could be referred to as the “Waleses”, “Windsors”, and/or “Montbatten-Windsors”. But if you say the “Cambridges”, it’s pretty clear you’re referring to only 3 people. Oh, does Queen Elizabeth and/or King Charles or William (presuming they goes with those names) have the power to to put Camilla in the tower of London or some other secure place? ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katie-and-bill-prince-william-and-kate-surnames/683376/19 "2014-03-11T08:53:28Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > Oh, does Queen Elizabeth and/or King Charles or William (presuming they goes with those names) have the power to to put Camilla in the tower of London or some other secure place? Nope. > [@](#): > > No Freeman shall be taken or imprisoned, or be disseised of his Freehold, or Liberties, or free Customs, or be outlawed, or exiled, or any other wise destroyed; nor will We not pass upon him, nor condemn him, but by lawful judgment of his Peers, or by the Law of the Land. We will sell to no man, we will not deny or defer to any man either Justice or Right. That is, in fact, one of the few clauses of Magna Carta that is [still in force](http://www.legislation.gov.uk/aep/Edw1cc1929/25/9). ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2014, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katie-and-bill-prince-william-and-kate-surnames/683376/20 "2014-03-11T09:55:15Z")
See how much good that did for Anne Boleyn. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katie-and-bill-prince-william-and-kate-surnames/683376.md?page=2)