# Katz or Street? (for Mayor of Philadelphia) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 16, 2003, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katz-or-street-for-mayor-of-philadelphia/161718 "2003-03-16T03:36:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katz-or-street-for-mayor-of-philadelphia/161718/1 "2003-03-16T03:36:02Z")
Which one of these two should be elected Mayor? Also, who will be elected to the City Council, and will anyone on the Council lose re-election? ---
**Author:** ![Splanky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b2d939/32.png) [@Splanky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Splanky)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katz-or-street-for-mayor-of-philadelphia/161718/2 "2003-03-16T04:19:54Z")
duh? ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katz-or-street-for-mayor-of-philadelphia/161718/3 "2003-03-16T04:41:59Z")
Sorry. This is about Philadelphian politics. (Would that I could edit my posts.) ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katz-or-street-for-mayor-of-philadelphia/161718/4 "2003-03-16T05:02:14Z")
Anyone out there? There’s 3 million people in the Philadelphia metropolitan area, so there’s got to be at least one Doper from that area. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katz-or-street-for-mayor-of-philadelphia/161718/5 "2003-03-16T06:04:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Would that I could edit my posts. I edited the thread title a bit for you. ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katz-or-street-for-mayor-of-philadelphia/161718/6 "2003-03-16T16:52:22Z")
Thank you, (Mr?) Buckner. Where are all the Philadelphians out there? I’m in a debating mood, but no one wants to debate. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katz-or-street-for-mayor-of-philadelphia/161718/7 "2003-03-16T17:06:37Z")
What’s there to debate? Street was a Democrat following in the footsteps of Rendell, one of the most popular mayors Philly ever had, in a city that is so incredibly Democrat that it almost singlehandedly won Gore Pennsylvania in 2000. Katz had no chance last time, and if he runs again he’ll lose again. ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katz-or-street-for-mayor-of-philadelphia/161718/8 "2003-03-16T17:21:59Z")
Thank you for coming, Airman Doors. I’d like to argue your comment about Katz having no chance. In 1999, Katz came within 9,000 votes of winning. Moreover, Street has had a large amount of critisism, and one of his mentors, Carl Singley, has already endorsed Katz, so I expect this to be interesting. Do you have anything to comment on the City Council races? ---
**Author:** ![Tarantara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a4c791/32.png) [@Tarantara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarantara)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katz-or-street-for-mayor-of-philadelphia/161718/9 "2003-03-16T19:07:34Z")
He would rather build a shiny new sports stadium as a monument to his own vanity, than deal with the abject blight, crime, and poverty that has turned most of Philly into an Uberghetto. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katz-or-street-for-mayor-of-philadelphia/161718/10 "2003-03-16T19:28:26Z")
Let’s not be so hard on Street. All he’s doing is following in the footsteps of now-Governor Rendell, whose idea of crime prevention was suing the gun manufacturers for selling a defective product, all the while allowing SEPTA to go on strike, thus negatively effecting the local economy. Really effective there, Fast Eddie. :rolleyes: Good thing Fisher was a bumbling fool. I have no idea how Rendell could possibly have been that popular. ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katz-or-street-for-mayor-of-philadelphia/161718/11 "2003-03-16T23:18:29Z")
Airman, Rendell isn’t that popular. He’s twice lost for major office (1986 Governor and 1987 Mayor, both in the Dem primary), barely won a brawl in the 1991 Dem primary for Mayor, lucked out when 1) the Reps didn’t nominate the best candidate (Ron Castille), picking instead incompetent has-been Frank Rizzo, 2) Rizzo dies midway through the campaign, and 3) the Reps pick a bad candidate as a replacement, possibly (thought this is just rumor) to save Joan Specter’s (word deleted). In 1995, he beat a man who had NEVER won an election as a Republican, and, in 2002, he twice won by 55%-45% margins over people who had polled far worse. (Interestingly, most of the Philly powerbrokers prefered his primary opponent over him). ---
**Author:** ![nittanylion119](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b38774/32.png) [@nittanylion119](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nittanylion119)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katz-or-street-for-mayor-of-philadelphia/161718/12 "2003-03-17T01:47:41Z")
Hey, Airman, do you even live in Philadelphia??? You sound like a fool without a clue! Ed Rendell turned the city around. Growing up, Philadelphia was a dump, a deserted city not worth the pavement upon which it was built. Today, it is a vibrant and increasingly healthy metropolis, a jewel of the US Eastern seaboard. He turned debt into a balanced budget and lured new hotels and attractions to the downtown area. Don’t bitch about Disney Quest, they backed out because they couldn’t find the right mix of tenants for their proposed complex. Don’t bitch about schools: he had to get money first before he could fund schools. Pouring his energy into schools from the start would have yielded no money to work with. Pouring his energy into attracting business created the funds to work on the schools. As for you, Quinn, I doubt you live in Philadelphia either. Seeing as you debate politics across the map, I think you just do your homework from news clippings and then talk your ass off. While I can’t say you’re uninformed, I can say you’re unfamiliar with the topics of which you speak: Ed Rendell is very popular with they city of Philadelphia, and I’m sure that by the end of his first term as governor of PA he will be almost as popular with the rest of the state. As for who will win this upcoming election, I hope more than anything that Katz will win. As much as I love/loved Rendell, the city needs some new thinking. Street is a pompous jackass who can’t get jack shit done, case closed. If you’re reading this, Sammy, GOOD LUCK in 2004!!! ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katz-or-street-for-mayor-of-philadelphia/161718/13 "2003-03-17T03:43:22Z")
No, I don’t live in Philly. I have lived in Central PA my entire life, however, and I have actually met Rendell several times (not that that matters a whit) and have been to Philadelphia countless times. I’m glad you think it’s a jewel. I think it’s a hole. During one of my more recent visits, I was driving the Schuylkill Expressway and almost killed about ten people. Why, you ask? Because they were burning trash in a 50-gallon drum **in the right lane** , a bunch of homeless people trying to keep warm and not caring whether they got hit or not. I’ll bet they thank Rendell for all of his hard work helping the poor. :rolleyes: Also, I almost fell into a pothole which was actually more like a sinkhole, since it was about waist deep. That’s not to mention the assaults at the Vet, the drive-by shootings of children, and the booing of Santa Claus, among other things, all of which contribute to the general dirty-scumminess of the city. If you actually have the gall to say that Rendell IMPROVED the city, thank God I wasn’t there when I was a kid. Hell, I wouldn’t live there even now as an adult. ---
**Author:** ![nittanylion119](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b38774/32.png) [@nittanylion119](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nittanylion119)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katz-or-street-for-mayor-of-philadelphia/161718/14 "2003-03-17T05:37:52Z")
Every major city in the US has the problems you point out. You don’t hate Philadelphia, you hate cities. Period. Hick. I live in Central PA now, as I’m sure you’ve noticed, and as nice as it is, it has none of the luxuries of a major city. You’re just a closed-minded country nut from Pennsyltucky who can’t cope with modern society. You’re happy on your farm, and I’m glad that you are, but don’t say Philadelphia is a hole. Philadelphia has made live pretty good for you (let’s look at why the Interstates were built, or major sources of economic prosperity, and from whence they originiate). ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katz-or-street-for-mayor-of-philadelphia/161718/15 "2003-03-17T17:07:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > No, I don’t live in Philly. I have lived in Central PA my entire life, however, and I have actually met Rendell several times (not that that matters a whit) and have been to Philadelphia countless times. Countless times implies there is some reason to go there. > [@](#): > > I’m glad you think it’s a jewel. I think it’s a hole. During one of my more recent visits, I was driving the Schuylkill Expressway and almost killed about ten people. Why, you ask? Because they were burning trash in a 50-gallon drum **in the right lane** , a bunch of homeless people trying to keep warm and not caring whether they got hit or not. I’ll bet they thank Rendell for all of his hard work helping the poor. :rolleyes: Also, I almost fell into a pothole which was actually more like a sinkhole, since it was about waist deep. I’ve never seen such a situation where the homeless are right on the lane on a major highway in any city, so I doubt the accuracy of this account. There may have been other circumstances invovled. Furthermore, the Schuylkill Xpwy is no indicator of the city. It was built to convenience suburbanite commuting at the cost of some of Fairmount parks idyllic nature. > [@](#): > > That’s not to mention the assaults at the Vet, Nothing to do with Rendell > [@](#): > > the drive-by shootings of children, Are you living in the 80’s? > [@](#): > > and the booing of Santa Claus, Back in 1971, during a 2-10 season. BTW, it wasn’t booing, it was snowballs. > [@](#): > > among other things, all of which contribute to the general dirty-scumminess of the city. Yes, this is the typical atitude of the Philly hating Pennsylvanian. I’ll now await the arguements that the city gets too much money, balh, blah blah. > [@](#): > > If you actually have the gall to say that Rendell IMPROVED the city, thank God I wasn’t there when I was a kid. Hell, I wouldn’t live there even now as an adult. You’ll probably never live in **any** city, given what I’ve just read. And if you think things weren’t imporved under Rendell, then you obviously didn’t have any experience with the Goode administration. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katz-or-street-for-mayor-of-philadelphia/161718/16 "2003-03-17T17:30:36Z")
**Mr. Miskatonic** and **nittanylion119** , Enjoy, guys, I’m very glad that you love the city. I’m also amused at how easily you dismiss things as “living in the 80’s” when the fact is, people remember these things and get a negative impression of your glorious paradise. So, I’ll allow that there are actually people that like Philly. I’ll let other people make up their minds for themselves. One ride on a SEPTA bus should be sufficient, I think. As for me, I think it’s a cesspool. That’s my opinion and I’m sticking to it. Oh, and **nittanylion** , I’m not really a hick. I still have all my teeth and I graduated high school. So watch the personal insults. ---
**Author:** ![guy\_from\_wpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5e9695/32.png) [@guy\_from\_wpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guy_from_wpa)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katz-or-street-for-mayor-of-philadelphia/161718/17 "2003-03-17T21:57:59Z")
I lived in the Philly area for about 15 years (mid '80s till a couple of years ago) and I don’t really understand the “cesspool” criticism. Fairmount Park a cesspool? Manyunk, Roxboro, Chestnut Hill, Society Hill, Rittenhouse Square? The Main Line? Philly is a BIG city, so 100% of the area is not perfect (Mantua comes to mind), but the rest of PA isn’t all paradise either. What you see in Philly is reflected all over the country: a lot of it is nice, and you see some areas that are rough. There was, however, a noticable improvement of the city when Rendell was the Mayor–Center City was radically transformed for the better (Convention Center, how many Hotels?, all the development on Delaware Ave). Road access in the entire area–Do you realize what a big deal the Vine Street Expressway and the Blue Route was? The City wage tax was CUT? For the first time EVER? I’m just amazed in what was accomplished in the '90s in the Philly area. Any yes the Schuylkill can get a little intense for anyone who has just driven only on any other road in PA, but it is not the worse roadway in the country. Try driving through the Bronx; how about LA? Baltimore is fun at rush hour. Makes the Schuylkill seem pretty tame in comparison. And there is no place better for FOOD than Philly in the country. That is the biggest thing I miss since I live on the other end of the state. In any case, the race should be interesting since it is a re-match. And even though I am a registered Democrat , it would be a great kick in the pants to the City Machine if Katz would win. I think every political party should have to jump through several hoops to get their way. Keeps every one honest. ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/katz-or-street-for-mayor-of-philadelphia/161718/18 "2003-03-18T00:15:21Z")
How about the City Council races? Anyone have an opinion about them? The Reps have an open seat for the first time in either 20 or 24 years (I’m not sure if Bea Chernock left the council on her own will), and several Northeasterners, a former city department head (Juan Ramos), and (I believe) a former City Commissioneer are running in the Dem primary, so there may be a lot of interest in the at-large seats alone.