# Kavanaugh supporters: Do you think he lied? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 30, 2018, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kavanaugh-supporters-do-you-think-he-lied/822225 "2018-09-30T20:02:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Arizona\_Mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@Arizona\_Mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arizona_Mike)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kavanaugh-supporters-do-you-think-he-lied/822225/161 "2018-10-04T16:43:49Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Thanks for responding! What do you think of the Renate thing? I’d have to review the Renate comments, but 1) using comments in a high school yearbook to impugn someone’s reputation strikes me as just plain stupid, whether that is done against Kavanaugh or Ford; 2) Kavanaugh sounded just plain mortified and genuinely contrite over the pain it caused her; 3) The media is guilty of hurting her reputation by trotting it out after all these years when it was done and forgotten, and 4) as best I remember, there is no overt indication that Kavanaugh had sex with her, he did not claim in the yearbook that they had sex, she does not seem to think she had sex with him or, certainly, she has not claimed sexual assault, and originally signed a letter of support for him. Why do you think this indicates he lied? I’m a little unclear. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kavanaugh-supporters-do-you-think-he-lied/822225/162 "2018-10-04T16:54:14Z")
> [@Arizona\_Mike](#): > > I’d have to review the Renate comments, but 1) using comments in a high school yearbook to impugn someone’s reputation strikes me as just plain stupid, whether that is done against Kavanaugh or Ford; 2) Kavanaugh sounded just plain mortified and genuinely contrite over the pain it caused her; 3) The media is guilty of hurting her reputation by trotting it out after all these years when it was done and forgotten, and 4) as best I remember, there is no overt indication that Kavanaugh had sex with her, he did not claim in the yearbook that they had sex, she does not seem to think she had sex with him or, certainly, she has not claimed sexual assault, and originally signed a letter of support for him. > > Why do you think this indicates he lied? I’m a little unclear. I’m not using his yearbook comments to impugn him. I’m saying he lied to the Senate (and to all of us) when he claimed that “Renate alumnius” or whatever meant they were friends with her. It’s pretty clear it’s a claim that they had some sort of sexual thing with her (whether it was true or not), and his claiming otherwise seems like an obvious lie. ---
**Author:** ![Arizona\_Mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@Arizona\_Mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arizona_Mike)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kavanaugh-supporters-do-you-think-he-lied/822225/163 "2018-10-04T21:59:05Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I’m not using his yearbook comments to impugn him. I’m saying he lied to the Senate (and to all of us) when he claimed that “Renate alumnius” or whatever meant they were friends with her. It’s pretty clear it’s a claim that they had some sort of sexual thing with her (whether it was true or not), and his claiming otherwise seems like an obvious lie. I think an obvious lie would be to write “Hey, I f\*\*_k_d (girl’s name) here”) Stating that one was a member of the Renate alumni could imply that one was tight with, or had dated, or made out with a girl, as had others, and could simply imply that she was flighty or fickle with guys. It could be read in a lot of ways, so no, I don’t think it meant he was lying ---
**Author:** ![Arizona\_Mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@Arizona\_Mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arizona_Mike)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kavanaugh-supporters-do-you-think-he-lied/822225/164 "2018-10-04T22:08:14Z")
And today, a reference to someone at Georgetown Prep coining the name “Devil’ Triangle” for their drinking game was found: [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dor\_iBGXoAAsaw\_.jpg](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dor_iBGXoAAsaw_.jpg) And that student, plus another group of alumni, wrote a letter to the Judiciary Committee saying under penalty of perjury that yes, it really was a drinking game, and here were the rules: [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dor\_iA6W0AE5gfM.jpg](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dor_iA6W0AE5gfM.jpg) I suspect if Barney Stinson was referring to a “Devil’s Three-Way” on “How I Met Your Mother”, it was not being used decades before by a bunch of high school teens: [Bro Code Article 34: Bro's in a Devil's Threeway (Two Dudes!) - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-MFsRfPoys) I think that whole claim can be safely disposed now. It already pushed the grounds of credulity that a bunch of heterosexual, homophobic teenage males in the 1980s were going to share a bed with another naked male, even if there was a naked female included. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kavanaugh-supporters-do-you-think-he-lied/822225/165 "2018-10-04T22:25:29Z")
> [@Arizona\_Mike](#): > > I think an obvious lie would be to write “Hey, I f\*\*_k_d (girl’s name) here”) > > Stating that one was a member of the Renate alumni could imply that one was tight with, or had dated, or made out with a girl, as had others, and could simply imply that she was flighty or fickle with guys. It could be read in a lot of ways, so no, I don’t think it meant he was lying It could be anything! RENATE could mean Really Earnest, Normal And Timid Egos. It could be the last name of the priest they all went to regularly who taught them the value of moderation – Father Joseph Renate. It could be Swahili for “would be a great Supreme Court Justice”! We may never know. When she found out, she knew it was a shitty thing to write. Anyway, I feel like our interaction will not prove fruitful. In any case, since this whole thing is basically a done deal, I’m rapidly losing interest in this thread. Once he’s confirmed, I’ll ask the mods to close it. ---
**Author:** ![Arizona\_Mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@Arizona\_Mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arizona_Mike)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kavanaugh-supporters-do-you-think-he-lied/822225/166 "2018-10-05T01:44:58Z")
I know OP doesn’t want to discuss this any longer, but for anyone else still interested, a book on flatulence (“The Art of the Fart” by Steve Bryant) documents that “Bouf” has indeed been a slang term for “fart”: [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DosGgNTXUAEHuO8.jpg](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DosGgNTXUAEHuO8.jpg) Also, a classmate of Kavanaugh’s, Juan Carlos del Real, has a reference on his yearbook page that he “lost in Devil’s Triangle”. If the “Devil’s Triangle” was a term for sex act, how the hell did one “lose”? You can see the original page here: [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DosUPzMXgAAB0oo?format=jpg&name=medium](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DosUPzMXgAAB0oo?format=jpg&name=medium) ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kavanaugh-supporters-do-you-think-he-lied/822225/167 "2018-10-05T02:30:53Z")
> [@Arizona\_Mike](#): > > I think an obvious lie would be to write “Hey, I f\*\*_k_d (girl’s name) here”) > > Stating that one was a member of the Renate alumni could imply that one was tight with, or had dated, or made out with a girl, as had others, and could simply imply that she was flighty or fickle with guys. It could be read in a lot of ways, so no, I don’t think it meant he was lying I don’t think the question is whether he was lying at the time, but rather whether he is lying now about the way in which he and his friends were referencing it in their yearbooks. The woman in question apparently doesn’t seem to think it was a nice innocent show of respect in the way that Kavanaugh claims it was. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kavanaugh-supporters-do-you-think-he-lied/822225/168 "2018-10-05T02:35:54Z")
> [@Arizona\_Mike](#): > > Also, a classmate of Kavanaugh’s, Juan Carlos del Real, has a reference on his yearbook page that he “lost in Devil’s Triangle”. If the “Devil’s Triangle” was a term for sex act, how the hell did one “lose”? You can see the original page here: [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DosUPzMXgAAB0oo?format=jpg&name=medium](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DosUPzMXgAAB0oo?format=jpg&name=medium) It may or may not be true that it really was a drinking game. However, your interpretation of “lost in Devil’s triangle” isn’t the only interpretation. You seem to think it means, “I lost in Devil’s triangle” whereas it could also mean “I am lost in Devil’s triangle”. The other things in that yearbook entry don’t provide evidence in favor of either interpretation. (E.g., if he had written, “Won in basketball; lost in Devil’s triangle”, that sort of parallelism would support your interpretation of the phrase, whereas if he had written “Lost in space; lost in Devil’s triangle”, it would have supported my alternative interpretation. As far as I can see, the surrounding verbage doesn’t give a hint in either direction.) ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kavanaugh-supporters-do-you-think-he-lied/822225/169 "2018-10-05T02:50:01Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > In particular, if we suppose Judge’s “few weeks” working at the supermarket before football camp were roughly the first three weeks of August\*, then Ford’s “6 to 8 weeks before” would be something like June 6th to July 10th. And sure enough Kavanaugh’s calendar shows that within that time he was at a social gathering of a similar size to what Ford described, at a house that was less than 11 miles from the country club Ford says was nearby, and that also in attendance were two other people that Ford had said were there, and another person who was probably the one member of Kavanaugh’s social circle most likely to invite Ford to such a gathering. None of this proves an assault took place, of course, but if (as Kavanaugh claims) no gathering like Ford described actually happened, then it seems pretty coincidental that things would line up quite so consistently with it. In terms of hanging your hat on this particular party being the one, I do see the “less than 11 miles from the country club” as being a little problematic. Having grown up in the Maryland suburbs, I wouldn’t generally describe some place 11 miles away as being nearby. I guess I would have to look at the context in which it was said and at the road network between them, but 11 miles is a fair distance in that suburban area. I think what that party does establish, however, is that that particular group of people did hang out together, whether the party that Ford is talking about is that one or another one (perhaps that was more spur-of-the-moment and was not on his calendar). ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kavanaugh-supporters-do-you-think-he-lied/822225/170 "2018-10-05T02:56:50Z")
Actually, researching this, the context of how she said that it was not far from the country club is a little more ambiguous than I realized. I thought she was using it in the context of trying to pinpoint the party location (e.g., as in “It was around the corner from…”), but now realize she was using it in the context of the country club being where she went from to the party, which if she had access to a friend with a car, could potentially be considered as not too far. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kavanaugh-supporters-do-you-think-he-lied/822225/171 "2018-10-05T20:39:13Z")
> [@Arizona\_Mike](#): > > That she has no memory of how she got home in what was a ~6 mile (as the crow flies) walk is problematic. Did she hitch-hike? Walk 6 miles (which would be memorable in itself)? Call her parents? Ask someone at the party for a ride? She remains silent on a point that most people remember. > > We know that people who describe an actual traumatic event are very descriptive about the aftermath - they describe who they told about it, how they felt emotionally, whether they took a bath what happened in the days proceeding, etc. “We know”? Who is “we”? I’ve seen lots of commentary from experts – ranging from psychologists who study trauma, to sexual assault counselors – who say the exact opposite: memory gaps around the traumatic event are quite common. And many sexual assault survivors have come forward to say they too experienced memory gaps. One example (from a psychology professor who studies memory): [Psychologist Explains Christine Blasey Ford's Memory Gaps Are Normal](https://www.businessinsider.com/psychologist-explains-christine-blasey-fords-memory-is-normal-2018-9) > [@](#): > > trauma has important consequences for memory. > > With extreme emotional arousal, people may become narrowly focused. They will then be more likely to remember the central features on which they were focused. > > In contrast, they will have less clear and complete memories for other aspects of the traumatic event. Thus, we might anticipate that Dr. Blasey Ford would remember the assault and who perpetrated it. She will be less clear on other aspects of the event, including where the party was, the date, and even other people at the event. To me, this seems almost obvious. When she was being driven home, do you think she was thinking about who was driving the car, or do you think she was replaying the awful thing that just happened over and over in her mind? Surely the latter, right? So then what’s she going to remember later, especially years later? I think most people who’ve experienced a traumatic event know that kind of “blurred details” feeling. Personal annecdote time (for a different sort of trauma): My daughter had a medical emergency this summer (she’s OK now), and even just a day later my wife and I had completely different estimates of how many first responders showed up when we called 9-1-1, as well as lots of other details. But we both remembered exactly how my daughter looked, and exactly how it felt. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kavanaugh-supporters-do-you-think-he-lied/822225/172 "2018-10-07T08:00:18Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You’ve already admitted you don’t have a source for the claim, so I don’t know that further pursuing this point is necessary. Aside from that, **RitterSport** asked that this thread remain civil, and I’d like to contribute to that rather than be one of the causes of the devolution into yet another shouting match. To the extent that my previous post may have have failed at that, I apologize to **RitterSport**. > > To you, **Lance Turbo** , I hope you’ll give fair consideration to this plea: Please be better-prepared in the future to defend your claims with supporting evidence (and it’s a lot easier if you avoid sweeping characterizations and / or absolutes). May I offer a small bit of anecdotal evidence? I can’t speak for Georgetown students and fans, but I remember the hype about that game. I grew up (and still live) in the Louisville area. I wasn’t a fan of college basketball at the time, yet I remember the hype about that game. I didn’t have cable tv, but I still couldn’t escape the atmosphere and ubiquitous nature of the game. My grandparents weren’t Louisville fans (they rooted for their archrivals, the Kentucky Wildcats), but they watched a good portion of the pregame shows (I don’t want to say they watched all of it, but they weren’t fans of that team, and they still thought it was a huge deal that the Cardinals could be champs). My point is that, even among casual-at best- basketball fans, it was a HUGE deal. The local broadcasting and print media went all-out in their coverage of the game. I would have no problem imagining that there was similar hype in the Georgetown area. ETA: I was 9 years old in 1982. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kavanaugh-supporters-do-you-think-he-lied/822225/173 "2018-10-07T11:54:04Z")
We all made fun of Ed Whelen’s self own a few weeks ago when he publicly blamed someone else for an attempted rape, but in the end that ridiculous hypothesis provided the perfect story for Republicans to pretend to simultaneously believe both Ford and Kavanaugh. Whelen took one for the team. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kavanaugh-supporters-do-you-think-he-lied/822225/174 "2018-10-08T14:28:13Z")
You know, all love, people. But I think we’re done with Kavanaugh stuff for a while. Let’s all hit our separate corners and come back another day. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kavanaugh-supporters-do-you-think-he-lied/822225.md?page=8)