# Kayaks -- info please!
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kayaks-info-please/254913
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [July 13, 2004, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kayaks-info-please/254913 "2004-07-13T16:14:15Z")
**Posts on this page:** 10
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@Archergal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archergal)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2004, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kayaks-info-please/254913/41 "2004-07-16T14:16:36Z")
I’ve read that Eskimos\* didn’t actually do Eskimo rolls, that they would bail out and climb back in instead.
Has anybody else read this?
\*I know, not the right term for the people, but it’s what the roll is called.
---
### Author:  [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2004, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kayaks-info-please/254913/42 "2004-07-16T15:23:01Z")
> [@Muffin](#):
>
> I disagree that sit-on-top’s necessarily are wider. …I also disagree that higher seats are a bad thing. .
But you’re talking about really high-performance boats, here. A sit-on-top that is that narrow will be _really_ tippy for a beginner. By the time a paddler is at the levels you’re talking about, they won’t be handicapped by the narrowness and/or higher seat, as they will know how to control the boat with their hips. The OP is looking for advice on beginner-to-intermediate level boats. But this being the Dope and all, I guess I should have included a disclaimer. 😛
**Archergal** : I’ve also heard that about Eskimos, but I don’t know if that’s true. But it brings up another big argument about recreational kayaks–you can’t roll them. And you can’t roll most sit-on-tops either. (disclaimer–theoretically, you are able to roll some sit-on-tops if they have good leg straps, but as a practical matter, it’s damn near impossible.) You don’t need to know how to roll to paddle, of course, but it would be good to have a boat that you _can_ roll, because you’ll probably want to learn eventally.
---
### Author:  [@Mr.Barry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Barry)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2004, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kayaks-info-please/254913/43 "2004-07-16T15:23:34Z")
> [@Green Bean](#):
>
> **Mr. Barry** : I suppose you must work for the Jersey Paddler, eh? I don’t get down there very often, but I do make it to Paddlesports most every year.
>
> Are you a flatwater boater yourself, or do you paddle whitewater?
I’ll nether confirm nor deny that fact ;). I myself paddle mostly flatwater, in the various rivers and lakes and in Barengat Bay. I own nothing more then a meager rec-boat, but a nice benefit of working at one of the countries largest kayak stores is I can take boats out pretty much whenever. I normally take out the Perception Shadow 17. A lot of us at work have recently started to try out surf kayaking, which from my understanding can be very similar to white water. We take out various specialty boats for this though, all of these are of the sit-on variety.
---
### Author:  [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2004, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kayaks-info-please/254913/44 "2004-07-16T15:54:25Z")
Ever go out to Sandy Hook to surf? We haven’t been in a couple of years, but we used to go all the time. (after 5 pm, of course!) We only have one sit-on-top (Prijon Twister), so we usually use our regular whitewater boats. If you flip, and can’t roll, it’s no biggie, because you will soon be washed into the beach, where you can just use your hands to push yourself back upright.
Hey, we’ve never taken the [Aire Force](http://www.aire.com/forcexlaf.shtml) down there…that would be the bomb!
I suppose ocean surfing is similar in some ways to whitewater…oh, I’m just trying to be nice. I mean, the skills you pick up in ocean surfing might help you on the river, but I can’t really see any other similarities. Other than the fact that the water isn’t flat. Maybe the fact that you’re playing more than trying to get from point A to point B? But then again, plenty of whitewater boaters don’t play a lot…I’d be interested to hear where folks find the similarities.
Are you interested in trying whitewater?
Anyway, I’m dying to paddle the Mullica and/or Batsto. I’ve been out of my hardboat for a couple years due to a pelvic injury, but maybe the Aire would work…
---
### Author:  [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2004, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kayaks-info-please/254913/45 "2004-07-16T16:07:00Z")
> [@Archergal](#):
>
> I’ve read that Eskimos\* didn’t actually do Eskimo rolls, that they would bail out and climb back in instead.
>
> Has anybody else read this?
From paddlewise:
> [@](#):
>
> Did all native kayakers know how to roll?
> No. The Greenland Inuits and the Alaskan Aleuts were well known for their rolls but not all native kayakers knew how to roll or needed a roll.
>
> The Greenlanders were the masters of the roll. Their narrow boats, the conditions they paddled in and unexpected complications during hunting required them to develop numerous different rolls. In addition to the typical rolling with a paddle, numerous “trick” rolls were known such as rolling with the paddle held by one hand, using a harpoon shaft or using just an open or closed hand. The reasons for this is during a hunt the harpoon line could tangle and upset the boat or an injured animal sometimes attacked the hunter. In either case if the hunter is holding something he does not want to drop (like a knife) or the paddle is temporarily stowed, he had to use these rolls. The Greenlanders also used the bow rescue . . . .
Most touring sea kayaks are similar in shape to Greenland kayaks.
> [@Archergal](#):
>
> \*I know, not the right term for the people, but it’s what the roll is called.
Here are the names of various rolls spoken by Maligiaq Padilla, a young Greenlander who visited North America a couple of years ago to help spread knowledge of Greenland sea kayaking:
[http://www.qajaqusa.org/QK/rolls/rolls\_phonetic.html](http://www.qajaqusa.org/QK/rolls/rolls_phonetic.html)
---
### Author:  [@Archergal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archergal)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2004, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kayaks-info-please/254913/46 "2004-07-16T16:23:31Z")
Thanks for the clarification, **Muffin**!
---
### Author:  [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2004, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kayaks-info-please/254913/47 "2004-07-16T16:29:28Z")
> [@Green Bean](#):
>
> I suppose ocean surfing is similar in some ways to whitewater…oh, I’m just trying to be nice. I mean, the skills you pick up in ocean surfing might help you on the river, but I can’t really see any other similarities. Other than the fact that the water isn’t flat. Maybe the fact that you’re playing more than trying to get from point A to point B? But then again, plenty of whitewater boaters don’t play a lot…I’d be interested to hear where folks find the similarities.
Around here (Cape Ann/Plum Island area), we’ve got a bunch of tidal rivers feeding into Plum Island Sound. You get some sincere currents and standing waves. The Sound varies from mill pond smoothness to what seems like Class II+ whitewater depending on the state of the tide and wind. I’ve found that quite a bit of what I learned whitewater canoeing carries over. So it may just depend on where you are.
Some of my impressions may also be due to my being a relatively new kayaker who is still fairly wimpy about the big waves (and all the waves look big when you’re sitting pretty much at the waterline).
---
### Author:  [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2004, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kayaks-info-please/254913/48 "2004-07-26T22:58:54Z")
Some videos of different types of rolls, including a straightjacket roll, performed in a Greenald kayak: [http://www.whitemountainweb.com/kayakerperry/videoRolls.html](http://www.whitemountainweb.com/kayakerperry/videoRolls.html)
---
### Author:  [@Archergal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archergal)
#### Post date: [July 26, 2004, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kayaks-info-please/254913/49 "2004-07-26T23:22:09Z")
Wow, very cool links, **Muffin.**.
I got to try just a couple of kayaks while I was at the coast. I rented an Ocean Kayak Frenzy for playing in the waves. It was fun, for that. But now I know I don’t want one of those for my “only” boat.
On the guided trip we took, I paddled a Current Designs Whistler. It’s a 14.5 ft long kayak, 25" wide. It was comfortable and easy to paddle. We paddled out with the wind in our faces, and back with the wind at our backs. I don’t know how it would feel if we’d had to paddle across the wind, though. Much more challenging, I think.
---
### Author:  [@wireless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wireless)
#### Post date: [July 27, 2004, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kayaks-info-please/254913/50 "2004-07-27T00:23:59Z")
> [@Green Bean](#):
>
> Anyway, I’m dying to paddle the Mullica and/or Batsto. I’ve been out of my hardboat for a couple years due to a pelvic injury, but maybe the Aire would work…
That’s where I bought [my kayak](http://www.kayaker.com/new/products/boat.asp?type=discontinued&ID=7) (Bel Haven)! The rivers are VERY calm, but the scenery is pretty and the one river is actually copper-colored due to the iron and tanin from the cedar trees (or so I was told) - very cool!
Seems like we have a number of Joisey kayakers, albeit of various sorts/types/levels. Perhaps we should have a Doper kayak get-together?
Any takers?
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kayaks-info-please/254913.md?page=2)