# Keep it to yourself! Better yet, DON'T DO IT! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 2, 2000, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-it-to-yourself-better-yet-dont-do-it/17957 "2000-04-02T21:46:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2000, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-it-to-yourself-better-yet-dont-do-it/17957/21 "2000-04-03T20:04:00Z")
OK, that was really funny - you crack me up! Esprix, who should know better than to read this stuff at work… * * * [Ask the Gay Guy!](http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001376.html) ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2000, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-it-to-yourself-better-yet-dont-do-it/17957/22 "2000-04-04T00:01:00Z")
Homer wrote: > [@](#): > > But I believe abortion is wrong. > > **Especially** late term abortion. Pull the baby out, rip open it’s neck, suck it’s brains out with a vaccuum, and throw the body in a dumpster. Um, if she were in her 6th month (the last month in the 2nd trimester), I believe she could terminate her pregnancy with a “saline abortion.” This practice has been around for over 20 years and involves no baby-out-pulling, neck-ripping, or brain-vacuuming. What you’re describing is the procedure known as a “partial-birth abortion” by its opponents, and is not commonly performed. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2000, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-it-to-yourself-better-yet-dont-do-it/17957/23 "2000-04-04T02:03:00Z")
Homer; Well, it’s been a couple days now. Have you mulled it over? Could you have heard her wrong? Ya think? Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2000, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-it-to-yourself-better-yet-dont-do-it/17957/24 "2000-04-04T02:56:00Z")
Brian said: > [@](#): > > Homer- Let me congratulate you on your eloquence. Any woman who thinks she has a “right” to murder ANY unborn child for her own convenience deserves to burn in hell for eternity. Well, as long as you’re willing to discuss the issue… ---
**Author:** ![Homer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df788c/32.png) [@Homer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homer)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2000, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-it-to-yourself-better-yet-dont-do-it/17957/25 "2000-04-04T05:43:00Z")
Alright guys, I’ve been reading what you said about mishearing and inside jokes, and I am thinking it was one or the other. I was thinking “Wild Oats” as in sowing, or again being able to sow. Perhaps it is a food chain here, too. Hold on tight, Bedboy. > [@](#): > > So are you saying that abortion is wrong because the fetus is a human but if said fetus is the result of “rape, incest, abuse, or known before birth to have severe physical or mental handicap” then it’s really not human after all? I really don’t think those are the greatest reasons ever, it was just some CYA because I knew if I **didn’t** cover those, someone else would, and probably make me look the worse for it. > [@](#): > > “Dope up?” Right, and how many folks are going to adopt straight away a “crack baby?” Painkillers, baby. It hurts like the dickens (or so I hear) so I figure if the pain is a reason some people don’t birth and put up for adoption, the painkillers are an option. > [@](#): > > Homer, you’re not just jumping to conclusions, you’re positively wearing Seven League Boots to get there. But they go so well with my shirt! [quote] _…and Homer heard:_ Homer, let me come felate you and your elephants. I’m sorry, I’ve just spent five minutes trying to describe how hard this made me laugh, and the best I can do is to say I snorted in the midst. And my dad told me to get off the damn computer and go to bed. > [@](#): > > I believe she could terminate her pregnancy with a “saline abortion.” Never heard of it. At least now I know that there is a somewhat _less_ gross and creepy way of doing the gross and creepy. And Mangeorge? I’m almost sure now that I heard them wrong or it was a sick inside joke. I’m somewhat intrigued by the tomatoes thing, though. –Tim * * * You can’t accidently create a handicapped baby whilst smoking pot. - **Coldfire** ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2000, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-it-to-yourself-better-yet-dont-do-it/17957/26 "2000-04-04T15:11:00Z")
Homer Member Posts: 392 Registered: Sep 1999 posted 04-04-2000 12:43 AM > [@](#): > > Hold on tight, Bedboy. Ahem. Given your OP in this thread and the responses, I’d have to say that the one poster here to be compared to bedboy should be you, not anyone else. BTW: “CYA?” Right! Nothing could make you look the worse for it than said OP. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2000, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-it-to-yourself-better-yet-dont-do-it/17957/27 "2000-04-05T05:40:00Z")
I don’t see a post from Bedboy in this thread anywhere. **Monty,** I don’t think Homer meant to say “Bedboy” or was meaning to compare you unfavorably to Bedboy. The quote is definitely your quote; I think he just mistyped “Bedboy” for “Monty”. Bedboy was in all our thoughts at the time, so I think it’s an understandable slip. Granted, tempers are rising, but at least Homer has the strength of his convictions. And you have the strength of yours. That’s what makes a Great Debate. Carry on. 🙂 * * * “Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast!” - the White Queen ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2000, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-it-to-yourself-better-yet-dont-do-it/17957/28 "2000-04-05T05:45:00Z")
Especially considering that he was typing it at 1:00 in the morning. ## (Am I the only one around here who goes to bed at a decent hour? Apparently all 4,999 of the other Dopers are all busy banging away at their keyboards all night. Don’t you people have to get up and go to work in the morning? :D) “Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast!” - the White Queen ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2000, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-it-to-yourself-better-yet-dont-do-it/17957/29 "2000-04-05T05:58:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by **Homer** : > > Never heard of it {saline abortions}. At least now I know that there is a somewhat _less_ gross and creepy way of doing the gross and creepy. Uh, Homer? Not to be one to point out the obvious, but isn’t it a tad hypocritical for someone to have such vehement beliefs on a topic they seemingly know precious little about? I would never undermine your right to be morally indignant about abortion, but at least get your facts straight and complete - it makes one look less ignorant, and gives one’s arguments more strength. Esprix * * * [Ask the Gay Guy!](http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/001376.html) ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_North](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Peter\_North](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_North)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2000, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-it-to-yourself-better-yet-dont-do-it/17957/30 "2000-04-04T18:25:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Um, if she were in her 6th month (the last month in the 2nd trimester), I believe she could terminate her pregnancy with a “saline abortion.” This practice has been around for over 20 years and involves no baby-out-pulling, neck-ripping, or brain-vacuuming. No, it just involves burning the baby to death with a salt solution, sometimes taking up to an hour to kill the baby. AFAIK saline abortions are not performed in the USA on a regular basis. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2000, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-it-to-yourself-better-yet-dont-do-it/17957/31 "2000-04-04T18:52:00Z")
> [@](#): > > No, it just involves burning the baby to death with a salt solution, sometimes taking up to an hour to kill the baby. The “baby” is not “burned to death;” the pregnancy is terminated by the introduction of salt water, in which the fetus cannot survive. Do _any_ of you pro-lifers have the ability to discuss this topic without the use of overwrought hyperpole? * * * Jodi _Fiat Justitia_ ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2000, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-it-to-yourself-better-yet-dont-do-it/17957/32 "2000-04-04T19:31:00Z")
Ironically, I first heard about saline abortions from an ANTI-abortion movie titled _Assignment: Life_. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2000, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-it-to-yourself-better-yet-dont-do-it/17957/33 "2000-04-04T19:57:00Z")
Ah, here we go. This is from the Planned Parenthood website ( [http://www.plannedparenthood.org/abortion/abortquestions.html](http://www.plannedparenthood.org/abortion/abortquestions.html) ): > [@](#): > > **How is abortion after 24 weeks of pregnancy performed?** > > Only one out of every 10,000 women who have abortions have them after 24 weeks. These are performed only when there is a serious threat to a woman’s life or health or if the fetus is severely deformed. > > One of the procedures is called the induction method. The doctor injects urea or salt solution into the uterus to induce contractions (labor) and cause a stillbirth. Or the doctor may insert prostaglandin into the vagina to induce labor and expel the fetus. Labor pains, which usually last from six to 24 hours, can be relieved with medication. > > The induction method is usually done in a hospital and usually means staying overnight or longer. The chance of complications is greater than with early abortion or D&E [Dilation & Evacuation] —- abortion after 24 weeks is about as risky as carrying the pregnancy to term. > > Some providers use a three-step D&E procedure instead of the induction method for abortions after 24 weeks. In the first two steps, the cervix is dilated several times until it is wide enough to allow removal of the fetus with grasping instruments. Peter North seems to be right about the lack of saline abortions. There is no mention of any saline abortion procedure anywhere on the above Planned Parenthood abortion webpage. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2000, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-it-to-yourself-better-yet-dont-do-it/17957/34 "2000-04-04T20:34:00Z")
What the hey, time to throw stuff both ways. Brian White said: > [@](#): > > Any woman who thinks she has a “right” to murder ANY unborn child for her own convenience deserves to burn in hell for eternity. Since most people who believe this are conservative Christians who believe that _all_ of humanity deserve to burn in hell for all eternity, all that seems to translate to ‘any woman who thinks thusly is no better or worse than the rest of us.’ Which is sound theology, no matter what one’s viewpoint on abortion - or on salvation and damnation, for that matter. And jodih said: > [@](#): > > Oh, and secondly, what business is it of yours? That’s right – none. Well, that’s what the abortion debate is about, in large part. Assuming that it’s none of Homer’s business is assuming that the pro-choice view is the correct one. While that might prove to be so, I’d hardly claim that to be a settled point. But even a weak pro-life stance would claim that the developing fetus is more than mere property, and that society at large has a stake in the protection of the fetus, in a manner analogous to the interest society has in protecting born children from abuse and neglect. My point here isn’t to argue that point of view; I’m just saying that it’s not been demonstrated to be wrong. And until it is, those who believe it to be right will understandably believe that someone else’s decision to abort _is_ their business, in the manner that someone else’s decision to beat their child is my business and yours, as well as theirs. Now how they should _express_ that belief, of course, is another question entirely. ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2000, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-it-to-yourself-better-yet-dont-do-it/17957/35 "2000-04-04T20:41:00Z")
Um, Tracer, I think induction method = saline method. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2000, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-it-to-yourself-better-yet-dont-do-it/17957/36 "2000-04-05T01:33:00Z")
Ah, okay – the “or salt solution” part in the first description of the Induction method in that Planned Parenthood quote. [Nitpick] Thing is, jodih said that the saline solution was supposed to kill the foetus, whereas the Planned Parenthood quote says the saline is supposed to induce premature labor. That was what confused me. The procedure I and jodih (and Peter North) are thinking about might in fact be a different procedure from the Induction method entirely, and be similar only in their use of a saline solution. [/Nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_North](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Peter\_North](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_North)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2000, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-it-to-yourself-better-yet-dont-do-it/17957/37 "2000-04-05T13:27:00Z")
jodih generalizes: > [@](#): > > The “baby” is not “burned to death;” the pregnancy is terminated by the introduction of salt water, in which the fetus cannot survive. Do any of you pro-lifers have the ability to discuss this topic without the use of overwrought hyperpole? It’s funny that you said what I said except I didn’t use flowery language like “terminated by the introduction of salt water.” The BABY dies, plain and simple. Yes, in this instance, I use the term “baby,” because this procedure is performed after 6 months gestation. I was curious why you don’t just call abortion what it is…the killing of a life, and just spare the semantical dancing. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2000, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-it-to-yourself-better-yet-dont-do-it/17957/38 "2000-04-05T13:32:00Z")
It’s because we don’t think that an embryo or fetus is a human being any more than a ream of blank paper is the works of Dickens. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_North](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Peter\_North](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_North)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2000, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-it-to-yourself-better-yet-dont-do-it/17957/39 "2000-04-05T13:36:00Z")
Hence the term “life,” not human being. ---
**Author:** ![Brian\_White](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@Brian\_White](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brian_White)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2000, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-it-to-yourself-better-yet-dont-do-it/17957/40 "2000-04-05T18:56:00Z")
To:RTFirefly- Actually,you’re right.What I meant is that a woman who doesn’t repent of the belief that she has a right to murder a baby will be condemned-maybe not in this world,but certainly in the next.All humanity DOES deserve to go to hell (including myself),but those who repent will be saved.(John 3:16). Thanks for calling me on this. Brian. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-it-to-yourself-better-yet-dont-do-it/17957.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-it-to-yourself-better-yet-dont-do-it/17957.md?page=3)