# Keep transgender people out of the wrong restroom! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 15, 2016, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995 "2016-07-15T19:15:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/21 "2016-07-15T21:46:22Z")
Do transgender individuals have the right to use their bathroom of choice? I mean, what if one day you feel more female on the inside and the next day, you few more male? What if a transgendered person decides to change back? This would be so much simpler if we just had private one-stall rooms that anyone could use, alongside the traditional male/female washrooms. If we make allowances for people in wheelchairs, I’m pretty sure we can make allowances for people with exceptions to traditional genders. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Me\_Billy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Me\_Billy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Me_Billy)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/22 "2016-07-15T22:25:43Z")
Let’s take this silly thing to the point of arresting/prosecuting someone… 1. Who would charge/arrest the person for this “bathroom crime”? 2. How would that person determine the sex of the person in question? a. Tell them to pull their pants down? b. Give them a blood test? 3. What if that person refused one of the above tests to determine sex? Then what? Search warrant? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/23 "2016-07-15T22:33:47Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Inasmuch as his post satirizes itself, inasmuch as it claims to avoid Poe’s Law by declaring that it avoids Poe’s Law, I think it’s fair to call his post “meta.” Or it’s just another one of **lance** ’s retarded whinings about trans bathroom issues. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2016, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/24 "2016-07-15T22:54:13Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Or it’s just another one of **lance** ’s retarded whinings about trans bathroom issues. Goddammit, Guin, he’s a GENIUS! He SAYS so! ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/25 "2016-07-16T00:06:36Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Fuck that … I’m going behind that there tree over yonder … Were you born male or female? Because males should only pee behind trees while females should only pee behind bushes. It’s what God intended. Now drop trou and show us your junk. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/26 "2016-07-16T00:49:29Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > This is way above Poe’s law! First of all, my smiley gives it away. Second, the genius of it is what exactly it is satirizing. It’s, like, meta. The words “lance armstrong” and “genius” are mutually exclusive. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/27 "2016-07-16T01:40:08Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Er, transwomen generally don’t menstruate A certain tiny percentage of tampon use is by butt chuggers. Cheers! ---
**Author:** ![CoastalMaineiac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@CoastalMaineiac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoastalMaineiac)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/28 "2016-07-16T05:28:57Z")
This whole transgender bathroom issue could be alleviated if only we had some sort of, oh I don’t know, [divider thingamadoojies](http://www.allpartitions.com/comstainstee.html) around each toilet to protect people’s privacy while they stink up the place. Those dividers should have [some mechanism](http://www.partitionsandstalls.com/surface-mount-door-hinge-set-rh-in-lh-out.html?gclid=CLr9u5af980CFcUmhgodNqwGCg) whereby a part of them could be opened to allow ingress and egress, but there should also be [some means](http://www.partitionsandstalls.com/global-toilet-partitions-slide-bolt-latch.html?gclid=CPbYw-6f980CFVVZhgodzMsFAg) of preventing anyone from entering when the toilet is in use. I think, if we could come up with a solution meeting those three requirements, then it shouldn’t matter who is using the toilet next to you. And thus, the problem would be solved. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/29 "2016-07-16T10:55:19Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The words “lance armstrong” and “genius” are mutually exclusive. Are you kidding? In terms of telling people how smart, progressive, and clever he is, he’s number one! ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/30 "2016-07-16T11:44:42Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Are you kidding? In terms of telling people how smart, progressive, and clever he is, he’s number one! His views smell like number 2. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/31 "2016-07-16T11:45:18Z")
> [@TipTapTwo](#): > > Take for example a woman trapped in a man’s body, if she needs to just pee, perhaps using the stand up urinals only found in the men’s room would be best/convenient if the woman’s room is full; even if that goes against her gender identity. Transgender rights means people can use the bathroom according to their gender identity. It does NOT include the right to switch back and forth at will. That would make all bathrooms de facto unisex bathrooms. Nobody, in the transgender community or otherwise, has asserted that right as far as I know. It would make no sense anyway. If someone is a gender, that’s their gender. They can’t just go back and forth between genders (even if they are one of those people, and there are such people, who say they do identify with differerent genders at different times - those people are still screwed because we’re not ready to deal with them yet). So the transgender-access-to-bathroom movement has simply replaced on rigid requirement - you must use the bathroom of your sex! -with another: you must use the bathroom of your gender. It solved a problem for some, but left, or possibly created, other problems. And that was the point of my post. > [@](#): > > If a husband needs to change his baby’s diaper, and for some reason the only changing table is in the female’s restroom, then I support him going in there to change the baby. It is just far more convenient than other alternatives. > > Likewise, if his daughter (lets say she has cerebral palsy so she can’t reach the tampons herself) got surprised by her period and did not bring any extra with her, the father should be able to go into the woman’s restroom and bring her into the disabled stall and help insert them. Or even take her into the male’s disabled stall if the one in the woman’s room is full. Yes, those are reasonable and normal exceptions that nobody cares about. Having experiences both (not involving tampons though, yech!) I will say that it speaks to the need for more “family” unisex, one-user-at-a-time restrooms. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/32 "2016-07-16T11:49:15Z")
> [@CoastalMaineiac](#): > > This whole transgender bathroom issue could be alleviated if only we had some sort of, oh I don’t know, [divider thingamadoojies](http://www.allpartitions.com/comstainstee.html) around each toilet to protect people’s privacy while they stink up the place. Those dividers should have [some mechanism](http://www.partitionsandstalls.com/surface-mount-door-hinge-set-rh-in-lh-out.html?gclid=CLr9u5af980CFcUmhgodNqwGCg) whereby a part of them could be opened to allow ingress and egress, but there should also be [some means](http://www.partitionsandstalls.com/global-toilet-partitions-slide-bolt-latch.html?gclid=CPbYw-6f980CFVVZhgodzMsFAg) of preventing anyone from entering when the toilet is in use. > > I think, if we could come up with a solution meeting those three requirements, then it shouldn’t matter who is using the toilet next to you. And thus, the problem would be solved. So why aren’t restrooms unisex now? If those partitions and locks and stuff solve the issue of privacy, why do we have two different restrooms in the first place? If it solves the transgender issue, it should solve the gender issue. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/33 "2016-07-16T11:52:22Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Goddammit, Guin, he’s a GENIUS! He SAYS so! Now your obsessive, whiny, pointless trolling has gone too far. It’s one thing to expose your intense insecurity by trying to impose the ridiculous idea that any criticism of a movement makes you the enemy of that movement (ah, memories of the GOP calling anyone who oppose the Iraq war a traitor), but to lie about things I’ve said? That’s pathetic. I’ve never claimed to be a genius. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/34 "2016-07-16T12:05:40Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > What if I’m non-binary gender, which [is lawful in Oregon now](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/12/oregon-judge-allows-person-to-change-gender-from-female-to-non-binary.html)? > > What if I’m a quantum gender, defined by the Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle? > > What if my gender is relative to my velocity? > > This is so confusing … WHICH BATHROOM DO I USE ??? > > Fuck that … I’m going behind that there tree over yonder … Exactly. You sound lke you’re making fun of non-binary people and the like, but I’m serious about them. We opened the doors to transgender people - because we could still fit them into our binary, segregated bathroom system - but when other people come knocking on the door, what do we say? Too bad, you have to pick a gender, and it has to be one of the two we’ve narrowly defined, or you’re out of luck? Or can those people just use whichever bathroom they want, exposing the pointlessness of gendered restrooms in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/35 "2016-07-16T12:16:25Z")
> [@Me\_Billy](#): > > Let’s take this silly thing to the point of arresting/prosecuting someone… > > 1. Who would charge/arrest the person for this “bathroom crime”? > > 2. How would that person determine the sex of the person in question? > a. Tell them to pull their pants down? > b. Give them a blood test? > > 3. What if that person refused one of the above tests to determine sex? Then what? Search warrant? Well, yes, but all of those question apply without transgender people in the picture. Would we charge a man - a cisgender male - with a “bathroom crime” for using the women’s room? And now that transgender people are in the picture, one could be a cisgender female who identifies, and looks, like a man, but could use the women’s room. So that means you can’t just look at someone and say they’re using the wrong restroom, even if they are using the one that corresponds to their sex. So all your questions would still apply. To enforce gendered restrooms based on sex, not gender, as in North Carolina, they’d face the exact same problems with determining who is who. In the old days, they’d just declare a man dressed as a woman a pervert and arrest them and that’s that. But that’s off the table now. They can’t require males to look like men or females to look like women. So it’s impossible to know if it’s a man or woman, or male or female, using a given restroom - EVEN IF you have a law requiring them to use the one based on their sex instead of gender. It could be a transgender man in the lady’s room, or it could be a male. Their fear of transgender people made it easier for non-transgender males to go in a women’s room, not harder. Look, people, I know all this deep thinking is hard for some of you. I posted this in the pit so you could show us how difficult it is with your reactions. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/36 "2016-07-16T12:35:43Z")
I think your fixation on public restrooms is funny. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/37 "2016-07-16T13:11:45Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > This is way above Poe’s law! First of all, my smiley gives it away. Second, the genius of it is what exactly it is satirizing. It’s, like, meta. > [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > I’ve never claimed to be a genius. Maybe you meant, “Chinchillas regularly beat me at Tic Tac Toe, but sometimes when I skitter across keyboards, genius statements appear as if by magic.” If that’s your meaning, then I apologize, you were half right. Dammit Guin, the satire of the OP is GENIUS! He SAYS so! ---
**Author:** ![CoastalMaineiac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@CoastalMaineiac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoastalMaineiac)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/38 "2016-07-16T13:57:01Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > So why aren’t restrooms unisex now? If those partitions and locks and stuff solve the issue of privacy, why do we have two different restrooms in the first place? If it solves the transgender issue, it should solve the gender issue. Cultural mores, I would say. I personally don’t give a shit (:p) who is shitting in the stall next to me. I don’t see why I should. But hey, people need something to whine about. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/39 "2016-07-16T15:26:40Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > I think your fixation on public restrooms is funny. I think we should put him and that Derek guy into a bathroom cage match and watch their minds explode. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/40 "2016-07-16T16:12:15Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > I’ve never claimed to be a genius. “Since I have never said the words ‘I am a genius,’ I have clearly never claimed to be a genius.” Technically correct is the best kind of correct. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995.md?page=3)