# Keep transgender people out of the wrong restroom! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 15, 2016, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995 "2016-07-15T19:15:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/41 "2016-07-16T17:01:56Z")
If someone is dealing with being transgendered (or a severely disabled child for that matter) they have enough on their plate already without having to worry about which bathroom they should use. I’m happy with the general practice of gender-segregated restrooms, but it’s of zero concern to me if someone who is not a cisgendered female is in the ladies’ room if that’s what they need to do. We have stalls. Don’t leave a mess and don’t hog the mirror in front of the one “automatic” faucet that actually works and it’s all good. > [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Were you born male or female? Because males should only pee behind trees while females should only pee behind bushes. It’s what God intended. So you favor discrimination against women who prefer the less-common but certainly utilized tree-lean method? For shame! ---
**Author:** ![TipTapTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/34f0e0/32.png) [@TipTapTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TipTapTwo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/42 "2016-07-16T18:16:44Z")
[QUOTE=lance strongarm] Transgender rights means people can use the bathroom according to their gender identity. It does NOT include the right to switch back and forth at will. That would make all bathrooms de facto unisex bathrooms.[…] If someone is a gender, that’s their gender. They can’t just go back and forth between genders […] […another post…] Would we charge a man - a cisgender male - with a “bathroom crime” for using the women’s room? And now that transgender people are in the picture, one could be a cisgender female who identifies, and looks, like a man, but could use the women’s room. So that means you can’t just look at someone and say they’re using the wrong restroom, even if they are using the one that corresponds to their sex.[…] But that’s off the table now. They can’t require males to look like men or females to look like women. So it’s impossible to know if it’s a man or woman, or male or female, using a given restroom [/QUOTE] Within the above quote snippets, I will show that while the letter of the law might have been meant to lock people into a different binary bathroom choice; the transgender issue has muddied the waters enough that, in practical effect, all bathrooms are now unisex and gender-fluid (at least to those people who can convincingly lie slightly more than 0%). I agree that transgender rights groups are not necessarily interested in gender-fluid rights, as their own transgender issues revolve around truly/fully being the gender opposite to their birth sex. In **Una Persson** ’s own thread on asking about her transgenderism post#20, [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=711614&highlight=transgender](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=711614&highlight=transgender) [QUOTE=Una Persson] An **intersex** person is born medically “none of the above” or “both of the above” in the most extreme cases, in that you can’t say 100% if they are female or male. The conditions may be so mild they never realize it until they die - or so profound their daily life is altered from the norm. An **intersex** person raised as one gender and who must present as one gender physically, socially, and legally, but changes all of those things later in life, is also a **transsexual**. That’s my case. [/QUOTE] We see that the switch itself to force the body to match the mind, is what makes a person transgender. But you freely admit that, "now that transgender people are in the picture, one could be a cisgender female who identifies, and looks, like a man, but could use the women’s room. So that means you can’t just look at someone and say they’re using the wrong restroom…They can’t require males to look like men or females to look like women. So it’s impossible to know if it’s a man or woman, or male or female, using a given restroom.” So, _practically speaking_, all of our public bathrooms are already effectively unisex. Anyone in our society today can freely use any bathroom they want at any time if, when questioned, they say they are the appropriate gender for that bathroom. There is no proof otherwise, and now we are to take it as true on the person’s honor. Who really uses specific public restrooms enough that the regular workers there will have remembered a person going into both restrooms over the months and start to get suspicious? What workers regularly toiling around the bathrooms would even be paid enough to care? Are we talking about an office setting pooping with our coworkers? If that, then we have made enough headway on the transgender issue that we cold probably browbeat the others into accepting our gender-fluidity given a slightly more convincing string of lies (if we wanted to abuse their trust). But I do see the importance of agitating for official changes to our laws, such that no genderfluid/transgender/colored/etc individual should ever be worried about being abused for using the wrong restroom. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/43 "2016-07-16T21:58:09Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > I think your fixation on public restrooms is funny. I have no such fixation. This really isn’t about my feelings about bathrooms at all. As I’ve said, I support transgender access to restrooms. I do have an obsessive fixation on logic. That’s what this is about. I find it really interesting the sometimes tricky, and sometimes whacky, logic some people use to justify transgender restrooms, and the interesting paths they lead to. It’s a new issue our society hasn’t dealt with before, and some people aren’t doing a very good job of it, and some other people on this board can’t seem to get that. Oh well. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/44 "2016-07-16T21:59:24Z")
> [@TipTapTwo](#): > > Within the above quote snippets, I will show that while the letter of the law might have been meant to lock people into a different binary bathroom choice; the transgender issue has muddied the waters enough that, in practical effect, all bathrooms are now unisex and gender-fluid (at least to those people who can convincingly lie slightly more than 0%). Finally someone else gets it. That’s been one of my points all along. And to say so doesn’t mean you oppose it, or that you oppose transgender rights. It’s just an observation. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/45 "2016-07-16T22:00:37Z")
> [@andros](#): > > “Since I have never said the words ‘I am a genius,’ I have clearly never claimed to be a genius.” > > Technically correct is the best kind of correct. Wow, you got me! ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/46 "2016-07-16T22:02:01Z")
> [@CoastalMaineiac](#): > > Cultural mores, I would say. But cultural mores also make some people not want to use a restrooms with transgender people either. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/47 "2016-07-16T22:03:02Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Maybe you meant, “Chinchillas regularly beat me at Tic Tac Toe, but sometimes when I skitter across keyboards, genius statements appear as if by magic.” If that’s your meaning, then I apologize, you were half right.! That’s exactly it! Your insight is uncanny. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/48 "2016-07-16T22:45:57Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Finally someone else gets it. That’s been one of my points all along. > > And to say so doesn’t mean you oppose it, or that you oppose transgender rights. It’s just an observation. You are one observant guy. How much lint would you say has collected down there? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2016, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/49 "2016-07-16T23:50:26Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Finally someone else gets it. That’s been one of my points all along. > > And to say so doesn’t mean you oppose it, or that you oppose transgender rights. It’s just an observation. TipTapTwo used so many qualifiers that there was one too many: “now”. As in, when writing, “in practical effect, all bathrooms are now unisex and gender-fluid,” that word “now” is unnecessary. In the sort of practical effect discussed there, nearly all bathrooms in all history (excepting maybe some bathrooms in certain prisons or on nuclear submarines or the like) have also been unisex and gender-fluid for people who can lie. It’s not a point anyone has ever disputed, because it’s a trivial point. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/50 "2016-07-17T01:14:35Z")
I think **lance** is worried that the blowjob he gets in the park bathroom might be from the wrong type of person. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/51 "2016-07-17T06:42:48Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I think **lance** is worried that the blowjob he gets in the park bathroom might be from the wrong type of person. I thought the main advantage of glory holes was the preservation of personal fantasy. Or so I’ve heard, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/52 "2016-07-17T17:00:31Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > I do have an obsessive fixation on logic. People are often fascinated by things they can’t understand. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/53 "2016-07-17T17:27:37Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I thought the main advantage of glory holes was the preservation of personal fantasy. > > Or so I’ve heard, of course. Maybe he’s afraid transgender bathroom laws will ruin this? ---
**Author:** ![Me\_Billy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Me\_Billy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Me_Billy)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/54 "2016-07-17T18:17:04Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > But cultural mores also make some people not want to use a restrooms with transgender people either. Actually I don’t care to use a restroom with a SAME gender person either! (Note how two guys will use two urinals the furthest distance apart?) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/55 "2016-07-17T18:38:20Z")
Women have no idea of the math involved in proper urinal selection. ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/56 "2016-07-17T18:39:17Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Women have no idea of the math involved in proper urinal selection. I always thought it was one per penis. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/57 "2016-07-17T20:13:30Z")
> [@Emiliana](#): > > I always thought it was one per penis. [Oh, \*hells \*no!](http://gamescene.com/The_Urinal_Game.html) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/58 "2016-07-17T20:19:47Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > “It’s, like, [del]meta[/del] trolling.” > > FTFY Only by that incredibly stupid definition that calls all jokes trolling. And even that usually requires that you don’t give away the joke. Only real problem is that I can’t tell who he’s making fun of right now. If it’s just the trans restroom issue, and not someone else making a shitty post, his timing is bad. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/59 "2016-07-17T20:36:14Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > I have no such fixation. This really isn’t about my feelings about bathrooms at all. As I’ve said, I support transgender access to restrooms. > > I do have an obsessive fixation on logic. That’s what this is about. I find it really interesting the sometimes tricky, and sometimes whacky, logic some people use to justify transgender restrooms, and the interesting paths they lead to. It’s a new issue our society hasn’t dealt with before, and some people aren’t doing a very good job of it, and some other people on this board can’t seem to get that. Oh well. If you are obsessed with it, then why don’t your conclusions change when people show the flaws in your premises? Or is that what this thread is meant to announce–that you finally understand why the trans issue does not inherently require unisex bathrooms, and you’ll stop making the problem worse by advocating for more than is necessary, thus making it easier for trans rights to win out? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2016, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995/60 "2016-07-17T23:54:27Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > People are often fascinated by things they can’t understand. Like a moth mistakes a streetlight for the moon and flutters about it uselessly until coming too close and getting burned, so is lance’s fascination with logic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-transgender-people-out-of-the-wrong-restroom/759995.md?page=4)