# Keep Your BS Out of the Schools
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-bs-out-of-the-schools/373693
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [September 22, 2006, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-bs-out-of-the-schools/373693 "2006-09-22T11:38:23Z")
**Posts on this page:** 11
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2006, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-bs-out-of-the-schools/373693/61 "2006-09-23T03:44:21Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#):
>
> Then there’s the ingrained God thing, and the fact that the BSA and GSA flatly refuse to combine forces (which would reduce significantly the redundant expenditures and duplicated resources–along with redundant management positions which I assume is the big objection) to form one gender neutral scouting group and what you have is one big monument to exclusionism.
Considering that the GSUSA (it’s not GSA, IIRC) do NOT discriminate against atheists or homosexuals, from what I know, why on earth SHOULD they join forces with the BSA?
I loved GS. I had a blast.
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### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2006, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-bs-out-of-the-schools/373693/62 "2006-09-23T03:49:34Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#):
>
> So if a Wiccan leader came to school and put bracelets on all the little kids saying, 'Hey, roundup for the Wiccan Scouts! Sign your kid up today!" everybody would be cool with that … right?
>
> My personal opinion is that you would hear the howls of outrage from social conservatives on the fricking MOON.
As well you SHOULD, because you know, that’s religion in public schools.
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### Author:  [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2006, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-bs-out-of-the-schools/373693/63 "2006-09-23T04:02:50Z")
There’s always [Spiral Scouts](http://www.spiralscouts.org/metadot/index.pl).
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### Author:  [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2006, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-bs-out-of-the-schools/373693/64 "2006-09-23T04:38:37Z")
If your son is 12 and you don’t want to support the BSA, try the [Civil Air Patrol](http://www.cap.gov/). Big plus: you can learn to fly!
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### Author:  [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2006, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-bs-out-of-the-schools/373693/65 "2006-09-23T04:45:08Z")
> [@GingerOfTheNorth](#):
>
> I was a Brownie and Girl Guide as a child in Canada, and my husband was only a few badges short of becoming an Eagle Scout here in America.
FTR hon, it was the project I didn’t finish. I had merit badges out the wazoo. [This](http://www.pbfcomics.com/?cid=PBF191-Boy_Scouts.jpg#181) was my favorite one to get. 😃
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### Author:  [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)
#### Post date: [November 6, 2006, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-bs-out-of-the-schools/373693/66 "2006-11-06T18:46:32Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian]
Indian Guides, part of the YMCA, is a great alternative to the Boys Scouts. I did boy scouts as a child, and Indian Guides as a parent, and I really love the focus on parent-child in the Indian Guides much more than the pack focus of the boy scouts.
It’s also much more laid back and less intense. And, despite being run by the YMCA, the religious stuff is limited to fairly benign prayers before meals.
[/QUOTE]
I’ve also done the Guides program through the Y with my two boys, and agree about the religious aspects of it. Even though I’m an atheist, there is nothing in the program that causes me concern regarding religious tolerance, completely unlike the Boy Scouts.
They’re trying to step back from the Indian themes, so with my older son, they had changed the name to Y-Guides, and now they’re Adventure Guides. There are no longer tribes, but circles (named after anything, not just Indian tribes), and our circle even has a girl.
The problem is, the Guides program is only for kindergarten through third grade. At least around here.
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### Author:  [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)
#### Post date: [November 6, 2006, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-bs-out-of-the-schools/373693/67 "2006-11-06T18:49:09Z")
[QUOTE=Bobotheoptimist]
Yeah, atheism is frowned on and that sucks. Wanna change it? Let your kid join and volunteer to be Den Leader.
[/QUOTE]
Sorry to dig up a six-week-old thread, but I just came back from a Cub Scout campout and wanted to read others opinions on the subject without starting a new thread.
I have volunteered to be an Assistant Den Leader, despite the fact that I’m an atheist. In order to join, I had to sign the [BSA Declaration of Religious Principles](http://www.bsa-discrimination.org/html/bsa-drp.html). Although I disagree completely, I want to be involved with my son and I think I can contribute to the development of the other boys. Faced with the dilemma of helping my son or making a political statement, I simply held my nose and signed it.
But especially now, I am not in a position to change their stance. I have to keep quiet about my religious views now because the BSA’s explicit policies would force them to boot me out. Saturday, the Den Leader expressed an interest in taking a less active role, and asked me and the other assistant leader whether we would be interested in taking over his position. I told him that since I am an atheist, I thought being an assistant was OK, but being a Den Leader would not be appropriate.
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### Author:  [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)
#### Post date: [November 6, 2006, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-bs-out-of-the-schools/373693/68 "2006-11-06T19:26:14Z")
But you’d better put **my** BS in, or ELSE!
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### Author:  [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)
#### Post date: [November 6, 2006, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-bs-out-of-the-schools/373693/69 "2006-11-06T19:37:14Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre]
Why should an organization that officially discriminates against atheists and gay people be permitted to recruit or hold meetings in our public schools?
[/QUOTE]
Maybe because they are _public_ schools, you fscking twit. Or does every organization that makes use of public school facilities need the Excalibre certificate of political correctness?
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [November 6, 2006, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-bs-out-of-the-schools/373693/70 "2006-11-06T19:39:24Z")
[QUOTE=mks57]
Maybe because they are _public_ schools, you fscking twit. Or does every organization that makes use of public school facilities need the Excalibre certificate of political correctness?
[/QUOTE]
No, but they ought to comply with _federal non-discrimination laws_, ya fucking tool.
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### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [November 6, 2006, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-bs-out-of-the-schools/373693/71 "2006-11-06T20:04:15Z")
[QUOTE=CurtC]
…snip…
I have volunteered to be an Assistant Den Leader, despite the fact that I’m an atheist. In order to join, I had to sign the [BSA Declaration of Religious Principles](http://www.bsa-discrimination.org/html/bsa-drp.html). Although I disagree completely, I want to be involved with my son and I think I can contribute to the development of the other boys. Faced with the dilemma of helping my son or making a political statement, I simply held my nose and signed it…snip…
[/QUOTE]
> [@](#):
>
> The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizenship without recognizing an obligation to God. In the first part of the Scout Oath or Promise the member declares, “On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law.” The recognition of God as the ruling and leading power in the universe and the grateful acknowledgment of His favors and blessings are necessary to the best type of citizenship and are wholesome precepts in the education of the growing members. No matter what the religious faith of the members may be, this fundamental need of the members should be kept before them. The Boy Scouts of America, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. Its policy is that the home and the organization with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life.
My son just joined Cub scouts at my wife’s demand to allow it and against my wishes. He really likes it so far and I hate it and everything about it. This group has an overly enthusiastic Dad trying to volunteer people for stuff. I resent the Friday night meetings and the basic concept of the Boy Scouts quoted above. I do not like this at all. I am still not happy with this Cub Scout thing.
Maybe my wife will see this thread and have some second thoughts. Neither of us is religious, but while I am somewhat hostile to religion, she is not. Considering her brother is Gay, I am surprised she is the more receptive parent to the BSA. I am the ex-military guy, I would have thought she had more reason to be against this group.
Jim
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