I just learned the meaning (at MY age) of the term, “pulling one’s pud”!
I will admit I once thought it was short for “puddy”, as in “Puddy Tat”, which, as we all know is a phonetic syllabic subsitution used by a certain cartoon canary, but then I couldn’t, for the life of me, figure out why a woman would wanna pull on that thing instead of pushing something into it.
One has to take into consideration that at a very young age, the German Boy had very little knowledge of catch phrases or colloquialisms, so I was naturally very naive for quite a long time.:rolleyes:
Folks, folks, put down your guns. Everything about this discussion that needs to be said has been said.
Even if we’ll all agree that looking at grey photo of my shoulder bone is the same as swishing your fingers around in my crotch, can someone explain why I’ve consented to every pelvic exam I’ve ever undergone, but were I to have to be unconscious for whatever reason, they can just neglect to inform me about an upcoming exam while unconscious, and that’s totally cool?
Quasi, I think it’s less erudite than that. Bear in mind that for much of history “pudding” and “sausage” have broadly overlapped (think of black pudding, white pudding, blood pudding…) and you’re pretty much there without needing any beastly Latin tags.
This thread gives a whole new meaning to the old “bring pie”.
I think that no one should be allowed to probe around without their consent. And I think a form that you have to sign at the hospital that is overly broad is too aggressive. They should be able to tell you what specifically they want to do, and you should be able to think about it before you’re at the hospital.
So, with my disapproval noted, I’ll note that no one should think these women were there for their gall bladders to be removed, or for a face-lift. If a pelvic exam could be done, it means the patients were in “the position”, perhaps for an ‘examination under anesthesia’, cervical surgery, etc.
I’m not excusing the practice, just saying it’s slightly more defensible when viewed in this light (that the staff doc/surgeon was going in there anyway).
I don’t know. What’s wrong with sticking your penis inside of someone’s vagina while they’re knocked out? It’s just one organ being put inside another.
I sincerely hope you are not practicing medicine. If you are, then you are a rapist (look up the definition: without permission it’s forcible penetration, and therefore rape.) And you deserve to be put in prison, where you can have all the involuntary colonoscopies you want. All they have to do is hit you on the head first, and you’d be perfectly okay with it.
I mean, I put up with freakin’ Cesario, and actually feel a little sorry for the guy. But I’m not going to put up with a rapist who lacks the emotional intelligence to know they are one. Stop trying to figure it out rationally: people have said they don’t want you touching their sexual organs, and you’re going to do it anyways. This makes you a rapist by definition.
So is there any particular reason why, if they can’t get enough practice on volunteers, these students can’t just look at an anatomical model, rather than grope a sedated woman?
Hell, a quick Google suggests that med schools are now pretty much gender balanced, in terms of the students. If exams like this are “no big deal,” why can’t the med students practice on each other? The women can act as guinea pigs for the Ob/Gyn exams, and the guys can be the test dummies for proctological exams.
There are very significant differences between humans, even within the range of ‘normal development’. Any model would lack this range of differences, and so would be a much less effective learning environment for medical students.
I would much prefer that medical students have experience with all the variances of human bodies before they become practicing doctors. And I’m willing to give up a bit of personal privacy to help they get that experience. (And I actually have, when I was a patient in a teaching hospital, as I pointed out in an earlier post.)
I prefer that, too, and i’m also willing to do that. But they should ask me and wait for me to say yes.
I’m a guy who, sometime in the next decade or so, will need to start thinking about things like prostate exams. If i’m ever in a hospital for a related procedure, i would be happy to give consent for med students to be part of my treatment, and to get some practice in. But again, i should be able to say yes to this explicitly, rather than have them simply assume that they can do whatever the hell they want.
The last time I saw a doctor, she had a student with her. I was asked twice for my consent to the student being present. First at the reception desk, and again in the doctor’s office. Then the doctor asked me if it was ok for the student to look over her shoulder while she examined my tonsils. Nobody went anywhere near my pie or any other baked goods, but if they did I would damned well expect the same level of professional courtesy.
I sympathise with med students, and god knows they need the practice. But they should also be learning about professional behaviour and respectful attitude towards patients. “She’s unconscious, she’ll never know” is not an acceptable mindset.
Another thing – if in the course of the exam, they find something wrong, how do they explain this to the patient? “Well, we decided to perform a pelvic exam on you, even though it wasn’t really necessary…” And do they lie and say the doctor did so?
Every hospital I’ve ever been in is a teaching hospital. It’s hard to imagine one that isn’t. They don’t actually have to be part of a medical school to be so. Certainly all of them in the Madison area have student doctors and student nurses running around. In fact, some of the nurses in school in town have to do their clinicals in hospitals as far as 2 hours drive away,because the local hospitals can’t accommodate all the students.
If you are in a hospital, the odds greatly favor that you will be in a teaching hospital. And because of your health insurance, the odds are also that you won’t really have any choice in the matter.
Clinics, not hospitals, are where you are far less likely to encounter students.
If a student found something wrong or unusual, their word for it wouln’t be taken – the exam would be repeated by a doc. Of course that still leaves the issue of explaining how they found a lump in your hoo hah while removing a bunion.
Cite that they do pelvic exams when removing a bunion? The only scenarios I’ve heard about from doctors, med students, nurses, etc… say that they only do pelvic exams under anesthesia for teaching purposes is when they are already doing a gynecological procedure. They don’t just do a pelvic exam when you’re having brain surgery or a hip replacement or a tummy tuck. From the article in the OP:
Also, from the comments at the bottom of that article from doctors and med students, the news article greatly exaggerates - it’s not a huge group of med students (usually just one or two, who scrubbed in for the surgery and usually meet with the patient beforehand), and the gyne exams are related to the type of surgery (e.g. hysterectomy, hysteroscopy, fibroid removal, D&C, etc…).
Speaking as someone who has undergone several surgeries with general anesthesia, and as a nursing student, all of the pre-surgery informed consent forms I have personally seen that are used in my area include a statement to the effect that students may be involved in the procedure. Maybe this isn’t fully explained to the patients, or maybe they don’t fully read or comprehend the consent form. Maybe some jurisdictions don’t include that statement on their consent forms, but they definitely should if they don’t already.
