# 'Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer'
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-friends-close-and-your-enemies-closer/430610
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [December 19, 2007, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-friends-close-and-your-enemies-closer/430610 "2007-12-19T19:30:25Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@petew83](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/petew83)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2007, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-friends-close-and-your-enemies-closer/430610/1 "2007-12-19T19:30:25Z")
I believe this quote came from ‘The Art of War’ by Sun Tzu, and has become a very prevalent axiom in society. Any thoughts on this opinion? What are the benefits of keeping an enemy close to you?
---
### Author:  [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2007, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-friends-close-and-your-enemies-closer/430610/2 "2007-12-19T19:55:34Z")
Nothing to add really, except that the quote comes from Michael Corleone in _The Godfather, Part II_, not from Sun Tzu in _The Art of War_.
---
### Author:  [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2007, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-friends-close-and-your-enemies-closer/430610/3 "2007-12-19T20:02:37Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal]
Nothing to add really, except that the quote comes from Michael Corleone in _The Godfather, Part II_, not from Sun Tzu in _The Art of War_.
[/QUOTE]
That’s got to set some sort of record for ‘misidentifying a source’… 🙂
I think what it means is, “remain up close and intimate with your enemies so you can keep track of what they’re doing”.
---
### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2007, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-friends-close-and-your-enemies-closer/430610/4 "2007-12-19T20:06:12Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal]
Nothing to add really, except that the quote comes from Michael Corleone in _The Godfather, Part II_, not from Sun Tzu in _The Art of War_.
[/QUOTE]
Where do you think MC got it [from](http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/36994.html)?
---
### Author:  [@Grossbottom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grossbottom)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2007, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-friends-close-and-your-enemies-closer/430610/5 "2007-12-19T20:24:35Z")
I think it’s a stupid saying. I don’t want my enemies close, if I wanted them close they wouldn’t be my enemies. Better to keep an enemy at a distance and know at all times what he is thinking and doing, and whenever possible, make that whatever I want him to be thinking and doing. Deception may be the root of all good strategy, but people usually believe what they prefer to be true, and I’d rather see a man strangle on his own self-deception than on lies I told to him in supposed friendship.
---
### Author:  [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2007, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-friends-close-and-your-enemies-closer/430610/6 "2007-12-19T20:37:39Z")
If “familiarity breed contempt,” isn’t this a self-fulfilling prophesy?
---
### Author:  [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2007, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-friends-close-and-your-enemies-closer/430610/7 "2007-12-19T20:49:31Z")
[But not too close.](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102945/)
---
### Author:  [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2007, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-friends-close-and-your-enemies-closer/430610/8 "2007-12-19T20:52:05Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace]
Where do you think MC got it [from](http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/36994.html)?
[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately, so many quotations pages don’t source their quotes, just as that one doesn’t. Here’s [The Art of War](http://www.geocities.com/wangawanga7/aow.htm). And here’s the script from [The Godfather, Part II](http://www.jgeoff.com/godfather/gf2/transcript/gf2transcript.html). Search for yourself on the word “enemies”.
Also, here’s a [Wiki page](http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Sun_Tzu) that does source its Sun Tzu quotes. It gives the OP’s quote as a misattribution.
---
### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2007, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-friends-close-and-your-enemies-closer/430610/9 "2007-12-20T00:40:12Z")
Sun Tzu, though, tried to get out _but they kept pulling him back in!_
---
### Author:  [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2007, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-friends-close-and-your-enemies-closer/430610/10 "2007-12-20T02:30:11Z")
yeah, I was gonna say…
I’ve had to go over TAW in more than one class and I certainly don’t remember that line. For his place and time and subject matter, it doesn’t really make all that much sense, IM **V** HO.
---
### Author:  [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2007, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-friends-close-and-your-enemies-closer/430610/11 "2007-12-20T04:59:35Z")
…But not so close that they can stab you.
---
### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2007, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-friends-close-and-your-enemies-closer/430610/12 "2007-12-20T05:07:00Z")
Sun Tzu had a way with words, but he’s been eclipsed by Genghis Khan’s “Say hello to my little friend.”
---
### Author:  [@petew83](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/petew83)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2007, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-friends-close-and-your-enemies-closer/430610/13 "2007-12-20T05:37:07Z")
k, it sounds like Sun Tzu originated the idea while MC said the exact words.
What does the idea really mean? It is most beneficial to respect your enemy in his presence, not to make a scene, to remain a gentleman, and to keep the communication lines open.
First of all, this is key to keeping a positive image in the eyes of the larger group you both are part of. Losing your cool makes you appear mentally weak, dangerous, and guilty.
Secondly, the good behaviour towards him may lower his hatred of you, or at least encourage him to focus his attention on something other than your destruction. It would definitely play to the emotional part of his brain, and in times of conflict emotion can overpower logic.
Thirdly, and perhaps most important of all, keeping open the communication lines reduces the amount of paranoia in the relationship. You must make their most sensational suspicions or accusations immediately empirically testable to dissuade them from demonizing you.
---
### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2007, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-friends-close-and-your-enemies-closer/430610/14 "2007-12-20T06:19:08Z")
I understand Alexander moved many cities to capitulate by announcing he had come there to chew bubblegum and kick ass, and he was all outta bubblegum.
---
### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2007, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-friends-close-and-your-enemies-closer/430610/15 "2007-12-20T09:31:40Z")
> [@](#):
>
> What does the idea really mean? It is most beneficial to respect your enemy in his presence, not to make a scene, to remain a gentleman, and to keep the communication lines open.
>
> First of all, this is key to keeping a positive image in the eyes of the larger group you both are part of. Losing your cool makes you appear mentally weak, dangerous, and guilty.
>
> Secondly, the good behaviour towards him may lower his hatred of you, or at least encourage him to focus his attention on something other than your destruction. It would definitely play to the emotional part of his brain, and in times of conflict emotion can overpower logic.
>
> Thirdly, and perhaps most important of all, keeping open the communication lines reduces the amount of paranoia in the relationship. You must make their most sensational suspicions or accusations immediately empirically testable to dissuade them from demonizing you.
I don’t think this was the original intent of this maxim. I think it was more of a _“keep an eye on your enemies so they can’t launch a surprise attack against you before you get a chance to destroy them”_ policy.
---
### Author:  [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2007, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-friends-close-and-your-enemies-closer/430610/16 "2007-12-20T10:31:05Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo]
I don’t think this was the original intent of this maxim. I think it was more of a _“keep an eye on your enemies so they can’t launch a surprise attack against you before you get a chance to destroy them”_ policy.
[/QUOTE]
I read it as also lulling them into a false sense of security.
> [@](#):
>
> First of all, this is key to keeping a positive image in the eyes of the larger group you both are part of. Losing your cool makes you appear mentally weak, dangerous, and guilty.
>
> Secondly, the good behaviour towards him may lower his hatred of you, or at least encourage him to focus his attention on something other than your destruction. It would definitely play to the emotional part of his brain, and in times of conflict emotion can overpower logic.
>
> Thirdly, and perhaps most important of all, keeping open the communication lines reduces the amount of paranoia in the relationship. You must make their most sensational suspicions or accusations immediately empirically testable to dissuade them from demonizing you.
Remember that Michael said this in explaining why he was so chummy with Hyman Roth. He might have had point #1 in mind to some extent, but rather doubtful re points #2 and #3. No amount of nicey-nicey was going to make Roth forget about Moe Green getting cacked, nor about his business interests that would be better served with Michael out of the picture. As for paranoia, if anything Roth wasn’t suspicious or paranoid _enough_ about the Corleones.
At least that’s how I interpret it.
---
### Author:  [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2007, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-friends-close-and-your-enemies-closer/430610/17 "2007-12-20T13:57:00Z")
The Greek Philosopher Anaxagoras was noted as saying “there is no dark side of the Moon. As a matter of fact it’s all dark.”
---
### Author:  [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2007, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-friends-close-and-your-enemies-closer/430610/18 "2007-12-20T15:34:10Z")
> [@](#):
>
> k, it sounds like Sun Tzu originated the idea while MC said the exact words.
How do I put this… it’s a very old and very obvious idea for anyone dealing with politics. If someone can or wants to screw you, you make sure that either he’s your est pal or that you at least know what he’s gonna do before he does it. The alternative is to make sure he’s far, far away.
---
### Author:  [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2007, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-friends-close-and-your-enemies-closer/430610/19 "2007-12-21T17:46:47Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo]
Sun Tzu had a way with words, but he’s been eclipsed by Genghis Khan’s “Say hello to my little friend.”
[/QUOTE]
Funniest thing I’ve seen in months! 😃
---
### Author:  [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)
#### Post date: [December 22, 2007, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-friends-close-and-your-enemies-closer/430610/20 "2007-12-22T23:55:21Z")
Sun Tzu also said, “Leave the gun, take the fortune cookies.”
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keep-your-friends-close-and-your-enemies-closer/430610.md?page=2)