# Keeping US borders safe **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 7, 2005, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keeping-us-borders-safe/307335 "2005-06-07T19:21:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![The\_Highwayman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@The\_Highwayman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Highwayman)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keeping-us-borders-safe/307335/61 "2005-06-08T00:48:44Z")
To the OP: **This has to be the coolest post in eons.** ---
**Author:** ![UnwrittenNocturne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/6de8d8/32.png) [@UnwrittenNocturne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UnwrittenNocturne)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keeping-us-borders-safe/307335/62 "2005-06-08T01:07:02Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Sure, there are plenty of differences. One of them being that Gitmo is an abrrogation of due process and the rule of law, while this is an example of following both to the letter. **Elvis** , in true stopped-clock fashion, is correct to decry the Gitmo abuses, but is simply being his typically idiotic self by turning around and complaining about these border guards doing exactly what they were supposed to. Smells like hypocrisy to me.\* > > [sub]\*Which smells like a combination of burning hair and turpentine, in case anyone was curious.[/sub] > > Of course, that doesn’t excuse **LonesomePolecat** for characterizing everyone who has respect for the Constitution and basic human decency as “dumb crybaby motherfuckers,” but much like **Elvis** , this sort of behavior should come as no surprise to anyone who’s paid any attention to his previous syphilitic dribblings on this board. I would nto deny that **Elvis** went overboard on this one. I am just more than a little sick of seeing **dave** make excuses and compare, as put above, apples with oranges. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keeping-us-borders-safe/307335/63 "2005-06-08T01:13:12Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Who the hell picks up a hitchhiker that looks like this guy? Let alone one carrying a chainsaw and a freaking homemade sword! Really. All he was missing were the leather mask and a hook :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keeping-us-borders-safe/307335/64 "2005-06-08T03:09:02Z")
> [@bouv](#): > > Couldn’t it at elast be prboable cause to, oh I dunno…test it to see if it actualyl IS blood, or just some other red liquid? Luminol works in seconds. Spray it on, shine a UV light on it, and look for a glow. I would think the presense of blood could warrent them holding him for at least a little while for questioning. Granted, he was eventualyl caught so (as long as no other bodies are found) no harm no foul, but that really shouldn’t be the policy. > [@Fourth Amendment](#): > > The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. So what would be the border guard’s probable cause for applying for a search warrant? Doesn’t matter if it just takes a few seconds - it’s a search of the citizen’s “effects” and the federal agents are required to get a warrant, based on probable cause, to conduct that search. Suspicion alone is not probable cause. As others have posted, it could be oil, it could be animal blood. Possession of an oily or blood-stained chainsaw is not an offence. Even possession of a chain-saw with human blood is not necessarily evidence of offence - could have been an accident that caused it. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Oh, sure, hunters routinely use a homemade sword, a hatchet, a knife, and brass knuckles too. That musta been it. Let’s take this list one at a time. Homemade sword - unusual, perhaps, but illegal? Under what federal or state statute? Hatchet - that part of Maine and New Brunswick is pretty isolated. I’ll bet lots of people in the area have a hatchet. Not illegal to carry one, so far as I know - but if you can cite a federal or state statute making possession of a hatchet an offence, I’d like to see it. Knife - most hunters carry these. Unless it’s over a certain size, or concealed, not usually a problem. Brass knuckles - that might be an issue. I’m pretty sure they’re a prohibited weapon in Canada - are they in Maine? I dunno, but let’s assume it is. Even so, there’s an enforcement issue - technically, the guy isn’t in Maine until they let him in, and they don’t have any power to enforce Canadian law. So it may be that all they can do is confiscate the item as a condition of re-entry. > [@lieu](#): > > “Police believe the dispute between the neighbors boiled over in the early-morning hours of April 24, when Despres allegedly broke into Fulton’s home and stabbed the couple.” > > Yep, that could do it. Yep, that could give probable cause - 'cept for a little question of timing: > [@](#): > > The **following** day, a gruesome scene was discovered in Despres’ hometown of Minto, New Brunswick ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keeping-us-borders-safe/307335/65 "2005-06-08T04:25:04Z")
> [@UnwrittenNocturne](#): > > Bullshit and you know it. There is a world of difference between the human rights abuses at Gitmo and this. Quit being so fucking disingenuous. > > While I have always thought your politics were on par with those of a rabid snail I did not think you would stoop to outright ‘misunderstanderating’ a poster in those terms Bullshit yourself. If you’d stop being a knee jerk tool and reacting to me the poster rather than what I actually said, you’d see that I am dead on in this one. If those Border Patrol Officers had detained this man further, as Elvis wants based upon the OP, they would be in violation of U.S. law and _guilty of detaining a person without a legal justification for doing so_, the exact same charge that Elvis and the chipmunks are so fond of leveling against those detaining the people at Gitmo. ( Here’s another newsflash for you sport, just to set you eyelid a twitter along with your jerking knee. I personally do not like how the administration has handled the detainees in Gitmo. That’s neither here nor there. Elvis’ blatant hypocrisy is the issue here.) Also, I’m curious. Exactly which political opinions that I hold do you find so repugnant. Can you even state with any degree of accuracy what my political positions are? Why don’t you try and I’ll let you know how close to the mark you come. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keeping-us-borders-safe/307335/66 "2005-06-08T04:27:39Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > I don’t know if this idea has been floated yet, but it occured to me when I heard about this incident on the radio this morning. The border patrols of Canada and the U.S. should have access to each other’s warrant databases, so if someone acting in a suspicious manner tries to cross in either direction, the receiving nation can check for outstanding warrants from both sides and arrest the person if one is found; either for prosecution in the agent’s country, or extradition back across the border. > > Is there any particular legal or technological hurdle to this? They lack the ability to alert authorities to crimes which have been committed but not yet discovered. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keeping-us-borders-safe/307335/67 "2005-06-08T05:14:20Z")
Even agreeing that it would be a good thing for each nation’s border authorities to access databases from the other, I’m not sure it would have done any good here: > [@](#): > > On the **same day** Despres crossed the border, he was due in a Canadian court to be sentenced on charges he assaulted and threatened to kill Fulton’s son-in-law, Frederick Mowat, last August. If he didn’t make his court appearence that day in New Brunswick, I would expect a bench warrant would issue immediately, but I’d be surprised if it were put on the computer systems instantly - some lag time is normal. ---
**Author:** ![WaryEri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ea666f/32.png) [@WaryEri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WaryEri)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keeping-us-borders-safe/307335/68 "2005-06-08T06:12:47Z")
> [@Jack Batty](#): > > Not for nothing, but Calais _is_ remote. I live in Maine – in Portland … way down south. Two hours north of Boston. Calais is about a six hour drive from here mostly along two lane roads that haven’t been re-paved in decades, past houses and farms that come straight out of _Deliverence_. Not that I think it matters much to the overall debate, but I’d disagree here. I used to live in NB, and I’ve crossed the border at Calais a few times. The town’s not huge, and there’s not much for miles around it, but the border crossing itself is right in the middle of town, and compared to some border crossings ( Pembina ND, I’m looking at you), it’s downright urban. Of course, the actual border station itself wasn’t much more elaborate than a toll booth, but I’d still pin Chuckie’s release on the lack of legal reasons to keep him, not on Calais being just east of West Bumblefuck. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keeping-us-borders-safe/307335/69 "2005-06-08T06:13:34Z")
> [@Northern Piper](#): > > Even agreeing that it would be a good thing for each nation’s border authorities to access databases from the other, I’m not sure it would have done any good here:If he didn’t make his court appearence that day in New Brunswick, I would expect a bench warrant would issue immediately, but I’d be surprised if it were put on the computer systems instantly - some lag time is normal. While understanding and agreeing with your principle, we’ve been hosing around with a CDL program for years in the lower 48 and it’s still imperfect. Going back to the OP, the authorities acted appropriately, within the scope of law. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keeping-us-borders-safe/307335/70 "2005-06-08T06:15:46Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Is there any particular legal or technological hurdle to this? I was listening to the radio a while back and the discussion was this very thing. It appears that some/many of the Canadian border crossings don’t have computers let alone access to a database. They are also told that if someone refuses to stop to just let the person go and call the RCMP. Depending on where the border crossing location is, time of day, and staffing levels of the local RCMP detachment it might take hours for a response. I haven’t confirmed any of this, it was just what I’d heard on a talk radio show. Regarding blood on the chain saw: Who the heck uses a chain saw to quarter meat? Not having been hunting for over 20 years maybe things have changed some in that time, but I don’t think I’d like the bone chips and chain oil in my meat and I’d definitely not like to be covered in the gore that a chain saw would throw all over the place. A hatchet and a good knife are all you need. Both sharp enough to shave with, of course. I like this quote from the article: Anthony said. > [@](#): > > “Being bizarre is not a reason to keep somebody out of this country or lock them up.” If there was a bizarro meter this guy would peg off the scale. This guy looked like a duck, walked like a duck, and quacked like a duck - he’s a duck (murderer in this case). Anyone remember the Gary Larson cartoon of the guy wearing a tutu, snorkle gear and carrying a bazooka? That’s this guy. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keeping-us-borders-safe/307335/71 "2005-06-08T11:05:36Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > They lack the ability to alert authorities to crimes which have been committed but not yet discovered. I understand that a two-country warrant search wouldn’t have worked in this particular case; I was just wondering if there was any particular reason such warrant searches could not be conducted, assuming all the budgetary shortfalls Uzi pointed out were corrected. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keeping-us-borders-safe/307335/72 "2005-06-08T11:44:11Z")
> [@Northern Piper](#): > > Yep, that could give probable cause - 'cept for a little question of timing: I think **lieu** was making a joke about how stabbing your neighbour tends to escalate arguments… ---
**Author:** ![audreyayn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@audreyayn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/audreyayn)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keeping-us-borders-safe/307335/73 "2005-06-08T12:21:52Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > If there was a bizarro meter this guy would peg off the scale. This guy looked like a duck, walked like a duck, and quacked like a duck - he’s a duck (murderer in this case). He does look like a duck, now that you mention it. A plastic duck. Rubber duckie, you’re the one … ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keeping-us-borders-safe/307335/74 "2005-06-08T13:07:28Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > But you’d go apeshit if this were evidence keeping a prisoner at Gitmo, wouldn’t you **Elvis**? So weak. No, I would not. What gives you that idea, clown? Hint: We have no idea whatsoever what evidence, _if any_, exists against anyone held in Guantanamo. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keeping-us-borders-safe/307335/75 "2005-06-08T13:12:44Z")
> [@JeffB](#): > > Calais is not even on the major interstate (I-95), and it appears somewhat remote. Have \*you \* ever been there? It gets pretty crowded, especially this time of year with vacationers in both directions. Interstate or not, it’s the shortest way by far from most of the Atlantic province population centers, and the state route that connects to I-95 isn’t that long. I’m fairly sure I-95 was routed north from Bangor, not east, to try to spur development in northern Maine, which is still pretty depressed, but that’s not the point here. Referring to the Calais crossing as “remote” being inaccurate is the point. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keeping-us-borders-safe/307335/76 "2005-06-08T13:29:29Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > No, I would not. What gives you that idea, clown? > > Hint: We have no idea whatsoever what evidence, _if any_, exists against anyone held in Guantanamo. Correction: YOU have no idea whatsoever. But it doesn’t matter because there wasn’t enough evidence to hold the guy at the Canadian border either. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keeping-us-borders-safe/307335/77 "2005-06-08T13:58:33Z")
And you \*do \* know what evidence exists for Guantanamo “detainees”? Please enlighten us as to what it is and how you know. Your second statement is false, as well. But my assertion that you’re a clown is not. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keeping-us-borders-safe/307335/78 "2005-06-08T14:03:12Z")
Since we’re asking people to enlighten us, how about you tell us what evidence the border patrol had to detain this guy at the border, **Elvis**? If you have any sources other than the article, please provide them. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keeping-us-borders-safe/307335/79 "2005-06-08T14:05:13Z")
Why don’t you think that was enough? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keeping-us-borders-safe/307335/80 "2005-06-08T14:09:43Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Why don’t you think that was enough? Please see my post #64. On what legal basis would you detain him? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keeping-us-borders-safe/307335.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/keeping-us-borders-safe/307335.md?page=5)